Opinions? - Good track car for $30k?
09-23-2003, 12:32 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
If you mean just the occasional DE then keep you M3. I'll bet the M3 is "nicer" to learn in. I drove with an instructor in his mildly modified E36 M3 at the track.
The M3 is certainly more than enough car if all you plan to do is a handful DEs. A "track" car isn't necessary.
On second thought. Go have some serious nut shriveling fun and buy a motorcycle and give that a go. No car can exhilirate like bikes.
Track prepped SV650 $3-4k
Trailer $500.
With the money you'll save you can sell your M3 and get a 993 Twin Turbo!
The M3 is certainly more than enough car if all you plan to do is a handful DEs. A "track" car isn't necessary.
On second thought. Go have some serious nut shriveling fun and buy a motorcycle and give that a go. No car can exhilirate like bikes.
Track prepped SV650 $3-4k
Trailer $500.
With the money you'll save you can sell your M3 and get a 993 Twin Turbo!
09-23-2003, 01:07 AM
#32
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Odd that on this 993 board, few people seem to think that a 993 (unmodified) is a good choice. Could someone please explain... ? Is it that the 993s really need an upgraded suspension and other mods to be enjoyable on the track?
09-23-2003, 01:18 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
Originally posted by abetaque
Odd that on this 993 board, few people seem to think that a 993 (unmodified) is a good choice. Could someone please explain... ? Is it that the 993s really need an upgraded suspension and other mods to be enjoyable on the track?
Odd that on this 993 board, few people seem to think that a 993 (unmodified) is a good choice. Could someone please explain... ? Is it that the 993s really need an upgraded suspension and other mods to be enjoyable on the track?
09-23-2003, 01:43 AM
#34
Phlat Black Guru
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
- Times 2
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
- Times 2
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back In RI...............
Posts: 4,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Erick,
*lol*
If you go thru some of the treads on the value of a 993, you will see that for 30k you can get a low mile, modified 1996-1997-1998. Hell in some cases you can get them for less than 20k!!!!!
*lol*
If you go thru some of the treads on the value of a 993, you will see that for 30k you can get a low mile, modified 1996-1997-1998. Hell in some cases you can get them for less than 20k!!!!!
09-23-2003, 01:44 AM
#35
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't state my question very clearly -
A lot of responses have stated or implied that I will be unable to resist spending a lot of money on modifications such as suspensions, racing tires, etc. As such, the advice goes, to stay within my budget of $30k I should get a much less expensive car in anticipation of spending the balance on the modifications. I guess I'm having trouble figuring whether these modifications are really necessary to thoroughly enjoy driving at the track, or whether they are necessary only if I want to be competitive. My interest at this point and in the foreseeable future is only with the former. I would be much more excited about buying a 993 than I would a 944 Turbo S (for example). However, if I would truly need to modify a 993 for it to be suitable for the track, then a 993 is in fact too expensive. I guess the question comes down to this -- which is going to be better for enjoyable non-competitive driving at the track - a stock 993, or a heavily modified 944? It seems as though the advice here is that the latter would be better, but as an admittedly clueless novice, it is hard for me to imagine that the much more modern and expensive 993 is not better, even unmodified.
A lot of responses have stated or implied that I will be unable to resist spending a lot of money on modifications such as suspensions, racing tires, etc. As such, the advice goes, to stay within my budget of $30k I should get a much less expensive car in anticipation of spending the balance on the modifications. I guess I'm having trouble figuring whether these modifications are really necessary to thoroughly enjoy driving at the track, or whether they are necessary only if I want to be competitive. My interest at this point and in the foreseeable future is only with the former. I would be much more excited about buying a 993 than I would a 944 Turbo S (for example). However, if I would truly need to modify a 993 for it to be suitable for the track, then a 993 is in fact too expensive. I guess the question comes down to this -- which is going to be better for enjoyable non-competitive driving at the track - a stock 993, or a heavily modified 944? It seems as though the advice here is that the latter would be better, but as an admittedly clueless novice, it is hard for me to imagine that the much more modern and expensive 993 is not better, even unmodified.
09-23-2003, 01:57 AM
#36
Phlat Black Guru
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
- Times 2
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
- Times 2
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back In RI...............
Posts: 4,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by abetaque
I didn't state my question very clearly -
A lot of responses have stated or implied that I will be unable to resist spending a lot of money on modifications such as suspensions, racing tires, etc. As such, the advice goes, to stay within my budget of $30k I should get a much less expensive car in anticipation of spending the balance on the modifications. I guess I'm having trouble figuring whether these modifications are really necessary to thoroughly enjoy driving at the track, or whether they are necessary only if I want to be competitive. My interest at this point and in the foreseeable future is only with the former. I would be much more excited about buying a 993 than I would a 944 Turbo S (for example). However, if I would truly need to modify a 993 for it to be suitable for the track, then a 993 is in fact too expensive. I guess the question comes down to this -- which is going to be better for enjoyable non-competitive driving at the track - a stock 993, or a heavily modified 944? It seems as though the advice here is that the latter would be better, but as an admittedly clueless novice, it is hard for me to imagine that the much more modern and expensive 993 is not better, even unmodified.
I didn't state my question very clearly -
A lot of responses have stated or implied that I will be unable to resist spending a lot of money on modifications such as suspensions, racing tires, etc. As such, the advice goes, to stay within my budget of $30k I should get a much less expensive car in anticipation of spending the balance on the modifications. I guess I'm having trouble figuring whether these modifications are really necessary to thoroughly enjoy driving at the track, or whether they are necessary only if I want to be competitive. My interest at this point and in the foreseeable future is only with the former. I would be much more excited about buying a 993 than I would a 944 Turbo S (for example). However, if I would truly need to modify a 993 for it to be suitable for the track, then a 993 is in fact too expensive. I guess the question comes down to this -- which is going to be better for enjoyable non-competitive driving at the track - a stock 993, or a heavily modified 944? It seems as though the advice here is that the latter would be better, but as an admittedly clueless novice, it is hard for me to imagine that the much more modern and expensive 993 is not better, even unmodified.
The question your asking is one with infinte answers. No one answer could be right.
Many people hear have 993 race cars, and 993 street cars, or one in the same cars (myself included)
some People have dedicated "track"cars, that may or may not be 993's Some have multiple 993's! one for the track, one for the street Hell some of us have a 993 and a 911 for the track! or a 993 for the street and a 944 for the track...or 2 993's for the street, and a 944 for the track.
the combo's are endless
its a very complicated arena...
09-23-2003, 02:04 AM
#37
Race Director
Andrew,
It comes down to your priorities. If the 993 ownership is paramount, you will track the car in stock form until you have additional $$ for the proper modifications for track. However, if DE enjoyments is more important, then a modified 994 is more bang for the buck. And quite possibly a better track car overall speaking.
There are many threads discussing the 993 suspensions. It seems that the U.S. spec. suspensions wear out in about 30k miles even without track use. Owners switch over to PSS9s, or ROW suspensions for both improved handling and longevity. In addition, tires and brakes wear out with track use, and a set of tires/brake for a 993 can run $2.5k. Thus my prior comment about the high 'maintenance' cost associated with using a 993 for track events.
To answer your specific question on suspension, I believe most owners will say that you need suspension mods to fully enjoy your track days.
As for your statement how a unmodified 993 can be less of a track car than a modified 944. I have a friend who tracks his 996tt at Laguna Seca, and others in Miatas (with suspension mods only) post similar or better track time. He is an excellent driver and runs with the red group (one level below instructors). Thus my comment about the kind of track you drive on. In a very tight track with little room for acceleration, the lightest track car is usually the better track car, regardless of brand.
CP
It comes down to your priorities. If the 993 ownership is paramount, you will track the car in stock form until you have additional $$ for the proper modifications for track. However, if DE enjoyments is more important, then a modified 994 is more bang for the buck. And quite possibly a better track car overall speaking.
There are many threads discussing the 993 suspensions. It seems that the U.S. spec. suspensions wear out in about 30k miles even without track use. Owners switch over to PSS9s, or ROW suspensions for both improved handling and longevity. In addition, tires and brakes wear out with track use, and a set of tires/brake for a 993 can run $2.5k. Thus my prior comment about the high 'maintenance' cost associated with using a 993 for track events.
To answer your specific question on suspension, I believe most owners will say that you need suspension mods to fully enjoy your track days.
As for your statement how a unmodified 993 can be less of a track car than a modified 944. I have a friend who tracks his 996tt at Laguna Seca, and others in Miatas (with suspension mods only) post similar or better track time. He is an excellent driver and runs with the red group (one level below instructors). Thus my comment about the kind of track you drive on. In a very tight track with little room for acceleration, the lightest track car is usually the better track car, regardless of brand.
CP
>>
09-23-2003, 04:31 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Originally posted by Phil McGrath
Erick,
*lol*
If you go thru some of the treads on the value of a 993, you will see that for 30k you can get a low mile, modified 1996-1997-1998. Hell in some cases you can get them for less than 20k!!!!!
Erick,
*lol*
If you go thru some of the treads on the value of a 993, you will see that for 30k you can get a low mile, modified 1996-1997-1998. Hell in some cases you can get them for less than 20k!!!!!
Please tell me there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with a $20,000 993! If not..... where do I sign up? The prices for 96-98 993's, within 6 hours of here, range from $38,000 (!) to $60,000.
Erick
09-23-2003, 04:48 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
abetaque,
You're going to enjoy yourself with ANY of the options that have been suggested. It's really up to what you WANT to drive, and what you would accept as a dedicated fun track car.
My personal feeling is that purchasing a stock 993 may not be the best use of $30,000, if you plan on using it predominately as a track car. If there are other reasons, a 993 is a fantastic car for both street and track.
Regardless, I still think that if the car really is predominately for the track, do yourself a favor and get it equiped with the following:
A roll bar
Harnesses
Seats
R-compound tires
Competitions brake pads
These track-related upgrades will ensure a safe fun experience.
Enjoy!
Erick
You're going to enjoy yourself with ANY of the options that have been suggested. It's really up to what you WANT to drive, and what you would accept as a dedicated fun track car.
My personal feeling is that purchasing a stock 993 may not be the best use of $30,000, if you plan on using it predominately as a track car. If there are other reasons, a 993 is a fantastic car for both street and track.
Regardless, I still think that if the car really is predominately for the track, do yourself a favor and get it equiped with the following:
A roll bar
Harnesses
Seats
R-compound tires
Competitions brake pads
These track-related upgrades will ensure a safe fun experience.
Enjoy!
Erick
09-23-2003, 07:59 AM
#41
Drifting
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Villanova, PA
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't want to stuff a 993 in the tire wall anymore than a M3. You need a car you can leave at the track balled up against the wall without crying about it later, and without expecting your insurance to write a check for a new one. Sure, some may, but they are getting smarter every day and those days are numbered.
So, how much can you spend and leave at the track? $30k for a nicer 993 with no mods? Maybe. I drove my 993 at the track for 3 years with only lowering springs on it. Would I have enjoyed it more with a real suspension? Sure. Did I know what I was doing and could I get a lot out of the softly suspended car? Sure. Would I do it again? Obviously not.
As pointed out above, we cant make the decision for you. Go to some PCA DEs and look around, ask the people there why they like their car. Then, no matter what you do, make sure you put the proper safety equipment in place: rollbar, seats, harnesses. Dont be stupid about safety.
E. J.
So, how much can you spend and leave at the track? $30k for a nicer 993 with no mods? Maybe. I drove my 993 at the track for 3 years with only lowering springs on it. Would I have enjoyed it more with a real suspension? Sure. Did I know what I was doing and could I get a lot out of the softly suspended car? Sure. Would I do it again? Obviously not.
As pointed out above, we cant make the decision for you. Go to some PCA DEs and look around, ask the people there why they like their car. Then, no matter what you do, make sure you put the proper safety equipment in place: rollbar, seats, harnesses. Dont be stupid about safety.
E. J.
09-23-2003, 08:43 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your question about needing to mod the 993 for the track answer is no (unless the suspension is shot...).
That being said, you will. Trust me. If the track DE bug gets you, you will start to improve, with the help of some good instructors. "Suddenly", that street suspension has too much roll, then you want an adjustable one... You also find out that certain tracks favor certain tranny ratios...there goes $10k...
Trust me, it goes on and on. I was in your boat a bit ago with my green car. It was a "street" 993 with racing tires and the M030 suspension. My choice was to put cash into it or buy. I bought. My interest, after DE'ing for a bit, was to get into racing (and don't EVEN tell me that you won't want to do that. I said the same thing to my wife...).
I really suggest that you drive the suggested cars on the track and find the type of car that you like. This is what I did, and I am happy I did.
Most of all, have fun. You really have no choice there.
That being said, you will. Trust me. If the track DE bug gets you, you will start to improve, with the help of some good instructors. "Suddenly", that street suspension has too much roll, then you want an adjustable one... You also find out that certain tracks favor certain tranny ratios...there goes $10k...
Trust me, it goes on and on. I was in your boat a bit ago with my green car. It was a "street" 993 with racing tires and the M030 suspension. My choice was to put cash into it or buy. I bought. My interest, after DE'ing for a bit, was to get into racing (and don't EVEN tell me that you won't want to do that. I said the same thing to my wife...).
I really suggest that you drive the suggested cars on the track and find the type of car that you like. This is what I did, and I am happy I did.
Most of all, have fun. You really have no choice there.
09-23-2003, 09:20 AM
#43
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally posted by E. J. - 993 Alumni
I wouldn't want to stuff a 993 in the tire wall anymore than a M3. You need a car you can leave at the track balled up against the wall without crying about it later, and without expecting your insurance to write a check for a new one. Sure, some may, but they are getting smarter every day and those days are numbered.
So, how much can you spend and leave at the track? $30k for a nicer 993 with no mods? Maybe. I drove my 993 at the track for 3 years with only lowering springs on it. Would I have enjoyed it more with a real suspension? Sure. Did I know what I was doing and could I get a lot out of the softly suspended car? Sure. Would I do it again? Obviously not.
As pointed out above, we cant make the decision for you. Go to some PCA DEs and look around, ask the people there why they like their car. Then, no matter what you do, make sure you put the proper safety equipment in place: rollbar, seats, harnesses. Dont be stupid about safety.
E. J.
I wouldn't want to stuff a 993 in the tire wall anymore than a M3. You need a car you can leave at the track balled up against the wall without crying about it later, and without expecting your insurance to write a check for a new one. Sure, some may, but they are getting smarter every day and those days are numbered.
So, how much can you spend and leave at the track? $30k for a nicer 993 with no mods? Maybe. I drove my 993 at the track for 3 years with only lowering springs on it. Would I have enjoyed it more with a real suspension? Sure. Did I know what I was doing and could I get a lot out of the softly suspended car? Sure. Would I do it again? Obviously not.
As pointed out above, we cant make the decision for you. Go to some PCA DEs and look around, ask the people there why they like their car. Then, no matter what you do, make sure you put the proper safety equipment in place: rollbar, seats, harnesses. Dont be stupid about safety.
E. J.
Someone said that the competition has headers, chips and everything which is absolutely true even in stock classes preping a 993 to be competitive takes a lot of money. Fortunately they are relatively bullet proof but you need a lot of cash or credit to built suspension etc...
So my recomendation is to stick to the above choices, prep it and have fun learning the car. While I have not driven an SRF I used to own a 968 and I can attest that they are much easier to learn and drive on the limit. By comparison I still have a lot to learn of how to drive a 993 fast which was not the case with the 968 where I was up to speed very fast.
Good luck with your desicion!
