Rotor cracks>>>change to solid rotors?
09-18-2003, 01:02 PM
#16
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Kim,
If you aren't getting any cracks in your rotors you aren't breaking hard enough!
Mine get cracks pretty quickly (2 events or so) but can easily go another 7-8 events before I need to replace. I had tried the cryo ones but they didn't seem to make enough difference to justify the cost. I can get the Big Red front rotors from Suncoast for about $150/each.
If you aren't getting any cracks in your rotors you aren't breaking hard enough!
Mine get cracks pretty quickly (2 events or so) but can easily go another 7-8 events before I need to replace. I had tried the cryo ones but they didn't seem to make enough difference to justify the cost. I can get the Big Red front rotors from Suncoast for about $150/each.
09-18-2003, 01:12 PM
#17
Mark,
I tried to get into the first settlers event but it's full :-(. It was great fun having Manny in the passenger seat, he pushed me more then anyone before. I ended up pulling a 2:32. Haven't had time to go back and watch my video to see what my times were when I was solo. My biggest problem is braking too soon, I was working on it.
You guys will have a great time, VIR is such a blast. Can't wait to get back there again. It's well worth the 5 hour drive.
Steve, that's the mod I was talking about.
Todd
I tried to get into the first settlers event but it's full :-(. It was great fun having Manny in the passenger seat, he pushed me more then anyone before. I ended up pulling a 2:32. Haven't had time to go back and watch my video to see what my times were when I was solo. My biggest problem is braking too soon, I was working on it.
You guys will have a great time, VIR is such a blast. Can't wait to get back there again. It's well worth the 5 hour drive.
Steve, that's the mod I was talking about.
Todd
09-18-2003, 01:30 PM
#19
RL Technical Advisor
Maurice & Don:
LOL,...Weight is not a big issue when you do not have sufficent brakes for what you are doing,...
The additional weight from larger brakes is only a concern when one installs a racing brake system like the 355mm and 380mm rotor packages. Those are a 2-piece rotor-hat combo that is not much heavier (if at all) from the stock 322mm TT rotor.
I'm not very concerned about a 2-3 lb increase in unsprung weight if the car cannot stop on the track.
********
Mark, et al using Oranges,....
Bear in mind that these are racing pads and they do make noise. Race pads do not contain the anti-squeal compounds that are the first to melt at high temperatures. Excessive noise & vibration complaints are usually the result of not using the brakes hard enough. Greg F. is correct; use 'em harder (without triggering fluid failure).
***********
Big Reds are not full-floaters; they are simply a bolted up two-piece rotor-hat combination. Full floating rotors are not really needed until you start using 380mm ones and 6 to 8 piston calipers. Those big things can warp if they cannot expand and contract evenly.
LOL,...Weight is not a big issue when you do not have sufficent brakes for what you are doing,...
The additional weight from larger brakes is only a concern when one installs a racing brake system like the 355mm and 380mm rotor packages. Those are a 2-piece rotor-hat combo that is not much heavier (if at all) from the stock 322mm TT rotor.
I'm not very concerned about a 2-3 lb increase in unsprung weight if the car cannot stop on the track.
********
Mark, et al using Oranges,....
Bear in mind that these are racing pads and they do make noise. Race pads do not contain the anti-squeal compounds that are the first to melt at high temperatures. Excessive noise & vibration complaints are usually the result of not using the brakes hard enough. Greg F. is correct; use 'em harder (without triggering fluid failure).
***********
Big Reds are not full-floaters; they are simply a bolted up two-piece rotor-hat combination. Full floating rotors are not really needed until you start using 380mm ones and 6 to 8 piston calipers. Those big things can warp if they cannot expand and contract evenly.
09-18-2003, 01:55 PM
#20
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There are two things to consider when dealing with brakes: performance and durability.
Performance: I doubt that anyone with stock 993 brakes and a good set of race pads could need any more braking performance. If you boil the fluid (soft pedal), either invest in some Castrol SRF or duct more cooling air to the caliper. If you get pad fade (firm pedal with decrease in braking power), get a different pad compound or duct more air to the caliper or rotor.
Durability: I tend to get slightly more life out of a set of rotors than pads. But the way I see it is, you pay $300 for a set of pads and $200 for a set of rotors. I think I would have to get a lot more life out of the Big Reds to really make it worth it.
But then again, the big reds look so cool.
Performance: I doubt that anyone with stock 993 brakes and a good set of race pads could need any more braking performance. If you boil the fluid (soft pedal), either invest in some Castrol SRF or duct more cooling air to the caliper. If you get pad fade (firm pedal with decrease in braking power), get a different pad compound or duct more air to the caliper or rotor.
Durability: I tend to get slightly more life out of a set of rotors than pads. But the way I see it is, you pay $300 for a set of pads and $200 for a set of rotors. I think I would have to get a lot more life out of the Big Reds to really make it worth it.
But then again, the big reds look so cool.
09-18-2003, 02:51 PM
#22
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I have been running oranges with frozen rotors (not big reds). I have always gotten cracks in them particularly as they get older. I am on my second set of oranges for these rotors and there are many cracks. I have noticed that the frozen rotors have lasted longer than the regular rotors by about 2 to 3 track events. I am considering getting reds for more breaking power and better heat release.
I agree with the comment above. If you are not getting any cracks you definitely aren't breaking hard enough!
I agree with the comment above. If you are not getting any cracks you definitely aren't breaking hard enough!
09-18-2003, 03:04 PM
#23
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Originally posted by kary993
...I agree with the comment above. If you are not getting any cracks you definitely aren't breaking hard enough!
...I agree with the comment above. If you are not getting any cracks you definitely aren't breaking hard enough!
Kim, are you just pimpin' around (once a pimp, always a pimp...) there or what's going on?!
09-19-2003, 01:01 AM
#24
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Mark,
Great thread with lots of good feedback (gotta love this place!). I had wondered the same after having replaced my rotors with OEMs, then had developed cracks after their second event (or third?).
As for Big Reds, I agree I'd like them for the look/"cool" factor but since I've never really felt like I "needed" more brakes than the little OE-ers and PFC pads, and I'm not looking for any sponsorships, I guess I'll just keep what I've got and accept the cost of rotors as the cost of doing business, er, having fun!
Edward
Great thread with lots of good feedback (gotta love this place!). I had wondered the same after having replaced my rotors with OEMs, then had developed cracks after their second event (or third?).
As for Big Reds, I agree I'd like them for the look/"cool" factor
but since I've never really felt like I "needed" more brakes than the little OE-ers and PFC pads, and I'm not looking for any sponsorships, I guess I'll just keep what I've got and accept the cost of rotors as the cost of doing business, er, having fun! Edward
09-19-2003, 03:57 PM
#25
I went from stock to Big Reds early this Spring- absolutely no difference (that I can tell) in braking performance (or modulation) but a big difference in durability. Part of which may be attributed to my switch from Hawks to Pagid Orange. I was going through two sets of front rotors a season- now it is easily one. The reds only just started to develop cracks after VIR last weekend and the wear is negligible. This is after at least six events, two people driving back to back in addition to taking out students.
I will probably switch back to the Hawks or try something else next year (any suggestions??). While the pagids are easier on the rotors my car is not used much except on the track. After I wash it the rotors rust and I'm rebedding the pads every event- a real pain with a lot of vibration as the pad material is hard to evenly disperse on the rotors. The Hawks I used to use- well I just went out and stopped- better or at least as well as the Pagids- but lots more dust and lots more wear on the rotors.
I'd love to find a compromise pad for next year....
I will probably switch back to the Hawks or try something else next year (any suggestions??). While the pagids are easier on the rotors my car is not used much except on the track. After I wash it the rotors rust and I'm rebedding the pads every event- a real pain with a lot of vibration as the pad material is hard to evenly disperse on the rotors. The Hawks I used to use- well I just went out and stopped- better or at least as well as the Pagids- but lots more dust and lots more wear on the rotors.
I'd love to find a compromise pad for next year....
09-19-2003, 05:08 PM
#26
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Edward,
How many events did you get (or are getting) after you got those cracks?
George,
You might want to try Performance Friction (I have 97 compound) pads.
How many events did you get (or are getting) after you got those cracks?
George,
You might want to try Performance Friction (I have 97 compound) pads.
09-19-2003, 05:18 PM
#27
FF thanks.
FYI I used to get cracks after or sometimes during second event on OEM (Zimmerman/Vertex) rotors using Hawks. But that is two people driving and was dependent on weather how many sessions we drove etc.
I did not have cooling ducts then either which I do now. Lots of variables I know but this may be helpful.
FYI I used to get cracks after or sometimes during second event on OEM (Zimmerman/Vertex) rotors using Hawks. But that is two people driving and was dependent on weather how many sessions we drove etc.
I did not have cooling ducts then either which I do now. Lots of variables I know but this may be helpful.
09-19-2003, 09:12 PM
#29
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David,
Nice shot. One of your cracks is about to meet the vent hole. I'm assuming you're walking on thin ice here and a DE away from catastrophic failure?
Nice shot. One of your cracks is about to meet the vent hole. I'm assuming you're walking on thin ice here and a DE away from catastrophic failure?
09-19-2003, 11:33 PM
#30
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Petu,
To my memory, cracks started from the holes almost immediately after my second TT with the new rotors. So far, I've done maybe 2 or 3 since and they're still looking ok. I, too, am using PFC 97 pads and love them! Though I've never compared side by side with the Pagids, the PFCs feel solid, don't fade, and wear very well. I decided on PFC from many who've had good things to say about them, and they were cheaper than Pagids.
David,
You might also think about opening up all those semi-clogged vent holes. I do this periodically with a drill bit and finger pressure. Though the holes are there for gassing, it might just keep the rotor surface cooler if you clear them (just my speculation)
Edward
To my memory, cracks started from the holes almost immediately after my second TT with the new rotors. So far, I've done maybe 2 or 3 since and they're still looking ok. I, too, am using PFC 97 pads and love them! Though I've never compared side by side with the Pagids, the PFCs feel solid, don't fade, and wear very well. I decided on PFC from many who've had good things to say about them, and they were cheaper than Pagids.
David,
You might also think about opening up all those semi-clogged vent holes. I do this periodically with a drill bit and finger pressure. Though the holes are there for gassing, it might just keep the rotor surface cooler if you clear them (just my speculation)
Edward