rongotti239

Hello Ladies and Gents,

My name is Ron and I have a situation that I thought you guys could help me get some clarity in regards to what I should do. Here is the situation:

My uncle is getting ready to leave the country for about 4 years and the other day he calls me and says that his mechanic who has worked on his car (1995 993 c2 coupe) has made him an offer to buy his car and that he wants me to do a little research and see if it was a good deal. Needless to say, once I had done some digging, I realized that the mechanic was trying to rip him off. Understand that my uncle is an Italian straight off of the boat and has owned this car for 15 years, only putting 2k miles or less each year. He certainly doesn't have his finger on the pulse of used car pricing.

I decided to dig deeper and have been reading on the forums here for the past week getting aquainted with everything I could know about his vehicle. I took it for a ppi at the local porsche dealer and they came back with a retail price of about $5k worth of work. Also from doing my research here, I have noticed the infamous little area of rust on the driver's side around the windshield.

Now, the question I pose to you experts is, what should I do for my uncle? He wants me to handle the sale of his car, should I have them fix everything, and then bring the car to have the rust taken care of and the paint work done? Or, should he just sell it the way it is and let the next person deal with? Considering how the market is, which way would get him the most money for his car?

Here are the specifics on the car. It's a 1995 993 C2 Coupe, Aventurine Green with grey partial leather interior, 72k miles, 2 owners, tiptronic transmission, power seats, alpine stereo, also have the original hifi stereo, it's been in florida it's whole life, he is only the 2nd owner of the car. It has a clean and clear title, it's never been in a bad accident but about five years ago his girlfriend lost control and blew the right rear tire and did some damage to the right rear quarter panel. It was all fixed up properly, no rough edges or differing gaps. I'm not sure if it's on the carfax but just thought I would mention it, because I do remember how pissed he was that she could do that to his baby.

Anyway, if you have any questions or need more info from me to give me an educated answer, don't hesitate to ask. I really wish that I could keep the car but right now I have too many vehicles and toys and not enough places to put them so I might as well help him out. It definately does look like fun here at rennlist though.

Have a nice night and thanks for any input in advance.

Ron

AOW162435

What issues did the dealer identify that amount to $5,000 worth of work?



Andreas

TMc993

Also, are you capable and willing to do some/most of the mechanical work yourself or will it all need to be done by a shop?

chsu74

Why go to dealer for aircooled work?

You should get another opinion from a reputable independent who actually are knowledgeable with these cars. Tell us where the cars is and people on this board can point you in the right direction.

nine9six

Ron,
Post your location, and maybe the members can recommend a good p-car indy in or around your area!

Drisump

I suspect that the dealership has focused on the probable suspension issues. The car is 20 years old and even with low mileage, the stock Monroes (if it still has them) are probably toast, control arm bushings are potentially a problem area, toe links at the back.....etc. As others have said most knowledge of these cars are not at Porsche dealers but at Indy shops. A good one is both better and much cheaper. As far as the rust goes, around here it is a $3k repair at a very reputable shop. Glass out with new glass if the rust issue is not severe. Cheers

bcameron59

Well, for starters I definitely wouldn't sell it to the mechanic at his offer price.

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to check carfax on the vehicle because whatever it says will affect the market value, good or bad. You could also get 2nd or 3rd opinion on cost to deal with the maintenance items, but I would be inclined to let an interested purchaser pay for their own PPI instead.

It sounds like you have checked the market and have a fairly good idea of the range of asking prices for comparable miles, condition and options. From there, your decisions will include:

1. Sell as-is, or make the car pristeen (ie fix $5k mechanical and/or rust bubble):
- Making it pristeen will probably cost more than you will recover on the sale, unless you have the time and expertise to do the work yourself
- best bang for the buck might be to put lipstick on the pig, ie get a full detailing and power polish so it looks really nice

2. Disclose the deficiencies and lower your asking price to reflect them, or go for top dollar and let the buyer find them with a PPI, then negotiate the price down from there:
- reduced price would probably lead to a faster sale, especially for someone who is willing to do, or even enjoys doing, their own repairs
- I don't know about your venue, but where I am it is not mandatory to voluntarily disclose defects or accidents in a for-sale ad, but you can't say a car is free from defects if it's not, and if the buyer asks you about accidents etc. you must respond truthfully (otherwise you may be liable for fraud)

3. venue for the sale:
- Sell to a specialty porsche reseller (you will likely leave money on the table but a quick sale is likely)
- sell in your local market eg craigslist (or newspaper, if anyone even does that anymore). Your market may be limited but you will likely be dealing face to face with potential buyers and can perhaps assess them during negotiations (body language, etc)
- sell in the nationwide market eg cars.com, ebay, this or other forums. This will give you the broadest exposure and probably yield the best price and quickest sale, but may be a more complex transaction requiring an escrow arrangement, shipping etc. Beware of scammers!

Hope this helps, good luck with the sale

Edit: to answer your original question, personally I would not do a transaction like this for a family member at all, because there is too much risk that they won't like how the deal went down and this can lead to bad feeings in the family which is never a good thing. Gawd knows it can be hard to get along with family at the best of times.

Instead, I would lay out the options and pro's & con's for your uncle to help him decide how he wants to proceed. I might even help him prepare ad copy and photos for advertising it. But if possible, I would make him stay in the driver's seat for the transaction.

If that's just not an option, eg he is too busy, or already gone, you should at least get him to do the following, IN WRITING:
- acknowledge the existing identified defects
- acknowledge range of selling prices in the current market for similar condition etc
- decide which way to go, ie is his priority a quick sale or top dollar etc
- state minimum selling price he would accept
- authorize you to act as agent on his behalf for the sale
- promise not to be pi$$ed off if he doesn't like something about how the sale went down.

In spite of these precautions he could still be unhappy but at least you will have the moral hugh ground, for whatever that's worth.

u7t2p7

Based on your general description of the car, and figuring if the dealer quoted $5k worth of work is equal to $3k at an independent, I would estimate the car's worth in the $30k range, plus or minus 10% inclusive of the accident report on the carfax report. I would not fix anything; let the new owner sort that out.

rongotti239

Thanks for the replies so far. To answer some of the questions posted above:

The car is located in Cape Coral, Florida. I took it to Porsche because from my research there wasn't a well know indy shop around here and the local porsche dealer does do alot of work on air cooled vehicles. My neighbors brother in law works as a tech at the dealership and will be able to do the work for me for a significant discount. The work that they say needs to be done is as follows:

New tires
Front Control Arms
Transmission mount
oil Change
cabin and air filters
brake flush
check cam and front cover small oil leaks
plugs/cap and rotors

Now the plugs/cap and rotors are because they don't know when or if this has been done recently. I'm in the process of finding out the service history regarding this from the independent shop/mechanic who has been doing the work and maintenance for the last 10 years because they didn't mark the book.

I would think that $30k sounds a little low considering in the last 6 months the lowest sales that I could find are salvage title vehicles that sold for $30k. Obviously, I'm no expert, that's why I came here but I would think that just selling it as is would be closer to $35k. Am I crazy for thinking that?

TMc993

If I were in your shoes, I'd investigate putting the car on the Bring a Trailer site on auction ( http://bringatrailer.com/about-bat-auctions/ ). It will cost you $250 to list the car at auction and you can establish a reserve if you wish.

I would list the car as-is, include photos of the corrosion on the car, and an honest description of the issues the dealership found. You'll get worldwide exposure with a minimum of expenditure of time and money. From what I've seen, the prices paid tend to be close to fair market value in most cases.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Drisump

Tips are selling for a significant discount vs manual so factor that in when assigning a price. If running fine why would you change the ignition components/change pollen filter/ do a brake flush/ if you're selling her? Normal maintenance such as the oil change and the items that effect drivability I'd surely attend to...the other stuff, probably not.

Foxman

Ron,

Good advise here from u7t2p7 and other. The tiptronic is a $5,000 reduction (sorry tip owners). The accident possibly another $5,000 deduction (or more), and there appears to be general deferred maintenance on the car. $30,000 in as is condition for this tip seems fair.

pp000830

• New tires, always a good item when selling a car as it will drive better during test drive
• Front Control Arms - only if it won't take an alignment
• Transmission mount - only if you have shifting problems
• oil Change - some buyers like dirty oil as it confirms that the engine does not have combustion moisture issues showing as foam at the oil filler cap.
• cabin and air filters - next owner's issue
• brake flush = next owner should do this
• check cam and front cover small oil leaks - not dripping on floor a non issue
• plugs/cap and rotors = if no OBDC misfire code causing a dash light, not an issue the wires last 60K the plugs at least 80K.
• Damage to rear quarter is a buyer beware issue and needs to be fully documented by a third party bopdy guy as any damage beyond a parkinglot bump in the rear qtr can affet the integrity of the car.

fatmike

I'd cite some market price exames. counter offer @ $36k -- find some common ground and sell the car...

(Don't spend a penny in the meantime).

/