GTR 993

I heard that the E36 M3 which I believe is an N/A engine no SC or Turbo pushes over 330 hp and the newest one coming out pushes over 350 hp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Why is it then that the 993 can only muster 280 hp? Imagine if the 993 had 330 - 350 hp. Keep in mind that the M3 is only a 3.2 litre engine.

I like the looks of the 993 and the performance but I am seriously considering an M3. Can anyone shed some light on this? I am closing on my house August 11,03 and after that I am in carville looking for a new hotrod. Does anyone an e36 M3'?

Matt Vaughan

Greg, I believe you're thinking of the new E46. The E36, I believe, had somewhere around 240 or 250.

Robert Henriksen

I'm no expert, but I can come up with at least two or three things:

water cooling allows a four-valve head.
Four-valve heads allow better breathing.
The motor spins to, what, 8,000 rpm? More power there.

On the flip side, the 993 motor doesn't tend to grenade itself like those e46 M3 motors have been doing.

ca993twin

8000 RPMs, 4-valve, modern engine technology. If you want large HP from a relatively small engine, you gotta spin it faster. This is the way the new GT3 is getting 350hp (or was it 374hp?) from the 996 3.6 liter engine.

Also see how much trouble BMW is having with their M3 engine... replacing them and extending the warranty.

max911

our engines are only two valve (per cylinder) engines.

TR993

This is my first post.However, how much does an 993 weigh? How much torque does a 993 produce vs. the M3?

Ultimately the 993 will always look good. An older E36 M3 looks like an old car. 993 is timeless in it's design already.

Viken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ca993twin:
<strong>This is the way the new GT3 is getting 350hp (or was it 374hp?) from the 996 3.6 liter engine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It is 374 HP SAE. Also, the GT3 engine, although a 3.6 litre, has nothing in common with the 996 engine. It is based on the Turbo and GT2 engine with a real dry sump with a 964/993 crankcase.

Matt Vaughan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Robert Henriksen:
<strong>On the flip side, the 993 motor doesn't tend to grenade itself like those e46 M3 motors have been doing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Isn't that the truth! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Temple

I think car companies have found at least one or two ways to improve engine efficiency in the past decade since our 993 engines were developed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Do a search under "e46" and you'll find a ton of previous threads on this subject.

cmoss

8.2K redline + 4 valves per cylinder = lots-o-hp. And sometimes they go BOOM!

<a href="http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm" target="_blank">e46 engine failure archive</a>

996FLT6

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the new M coupe(the hearst looking one) has the same engine as the e46 M3. Although it's detuned to 291 hp with a lower rpm limiter-it hasn't exploded or at least haven't heard of any. I think with the added weight of the e46 plus the high rev limiter can make some(not all has exploded) blow up if engine/casting etc. somehow passed inspection especially when it's a 3.2 and I have to say 333hp out of 3.2 it better meet certain tolerances during it's manufacture. My penny's worth. Regards. Mike

rsa

The E46 produces 333hp and redlines at 7900 rpm. The engine is incredibly free-reving. It is true that the engine had a high level of failures in the 2002 model year built between 10/01 and 1/02. The problem has more or less been attributed to a problem with the main bearings and has since been corrected. BMW, under a great deal of pressure has extended the drivetrain and engine warrenty to 6yrs or 100K miles. There are very few failures now.

To me, the car is an excellent tourer and is a great daily driver. For pure driving feel though, I'll take my RSA every time. My biggest complaint about the M3 is the overboosted steering feel. Of course I'm comparing it to the manual steering of the RSA.

djimenez993tt

Let me just point out some things:

1. the e36 m3, was available with 2 engines, as always, one for the usa market and another for the ROW. In fact the euro m3 was available with a 3.0l 285hp and a special 291hp, from 96 on the engine became a 3.2l with dual varaiable valve timing (VANOS) and it delivered 321hp plus a 6sp trans, and 2 piece rotors.

2. again with the e46 m3, the usa got a bad deal, 333hp vs 343hp and different brakes etc.

3. I had the opportunity to own both cars, and in my humble opinion, the e36 was a better car, as fast if not faster than the e46 (both being euro versions), much better fuel economy (I got up to 34mpg).

4. they might handle great, but I still sold my 88 m3, and my 98 m3 to get my 993 turbo. I then bought the e46 and have since sold it, it didn't do anything for me like the old e36 did.

993 rules!

993C4

I own both a 1995 993C4 Cab and 1996 E36 M3 3.2L ROW versions. Here are the specs for both cars:

993C4 Cab 3.6L
--------------
Max Power :272BHP
Max Torque: 330nm at 5,000 rpm
Redline: 6,800rpm
Weight: 1,450kg

E36 M3 3.2L
-----------
Max Power :321BHP
Max Torque: 350nm at 3,250 rpm (This is equivalent to 100 hp per liter)
Redline: 7,400rpm
Weight: 1,535kg
Tranny: 6 speed Getrag
Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
Lightweight pistons
Improved dual-mass flywheel
Graphite-coated conrods
Larger inlet valves
More efficient intake and exhaust systems
Second oil pump

As some have mentioned, the M3's lightweight pistons, conrods and 4 valves/cylinder and more efficient engine probably explains the higher BHP but driving both cars on a regular basis, I can't really feel the additional 49bhp from my M3. And If you look at the 0-100km times for both cars, the 993 is actually faster 5.3sec vs 5.5sec 993/m3 respectively.

IMHO, 993 feels better anyday!

993C4 Cab

S3

If you are willing to spend money, time and sacrifice reliability I'm sure you can get a lot out of the Porsche engine.

The sprint version was more than 400 hp.

Hp is a function of torque and RPM. High RPM will give more hp. Motorcycle engines can push 160 - 180 hp from 1 l engine, but redline is at 16,000 RPM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

M3 has a very bad habit - blown engine! <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

PSI motorsport in Belgium will provide 340 hp form the NA 3,8 l Porsche engine.

<a href="http://www.psi-motorsport.com/porschetuning/index-e.html" target="_blank">PSI Motorsport</a>

For serious power increase a blower is needed. Then you can double the hp in a Porsche. RUF, Techart, Gemballa, Sportech etc. can help.