OT - Anyone have a Saab 9-3 or Infiniti G35?
09-09-2003, 04:00 PM
#17
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My company car is a 2003 Saab 9-3 2.0T and it has serious Turbo lag. The G35 is an amazing car. I don't think there is any comparison between the two. The Saab serves it's purpose for every day use and beating around the city though. No problems yet besides the considerable amount of brake dust that coats the wheels every single time I drive it.
09-09-2003, 06:47 PM
#22
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You aren't actually buying a SAAB 9-3 but a rebodied Opel Vectra as its known in Europe, SAAB is owned totally by GM and it uses all their rubbish engines etc to kit the 9-3 out, poorly made and put together, endless problems and a crap car to drive
09-09-2003, 07:36 PM
#23
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According to Sports Car Magazine in the US the 9-3 motor's block is based on the same motor used in the Opel, Pontiac, etc. However the top up is developed by Saab (just like the 914, 2.0).
09-09-2003, 11:32 PM
#24
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My dad drives a g35 coupe. Its an awesome looking car with good handleing and nice linear power. The ride is firm but still comfortable. The interior is nice but is obviously one area where money was saved. Overall its a great car and id buy it any day over a three series or a saab.
09-10-2003, 02:19 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
irishman, have you ever actually owned a Saab?
The new 9-3 is absolutely NOT just a "rebodied Opel Vectra." Unlike the previous 9-3, which to a considerable degree was a rebodied Opel/Vauxhall, Saab was involved in the new 9-3's platform from the very beginning. That is why it is a far superior car to the old one, and also why the new Opel/Vauxhall is also quite capable. Both the new 9-3 and the Opel/Vauxhall have gotten excellent press from the enthusiast mags in the US and Europe, in stark contrast to their predecessors. The new car is a real competitor to BMW, Audi, etc., while the old one was not. The new platform that the 9-3 shares with the Opell/Vauxhall is so good largely because Saab did so much of the design work.
Saab's build quality is excellent -- easily the equal of the Infiniti, IMO. The fit and finish is excellent, and the quality of the interior materials is markedly better than the Infiniti's. Saabs also last forever. My first car is an '83 Saab Turbo. 20 years later I still have it, now with 266,000 miles. It runs great, and uses NO oil. My family has had more than a half-dozen Saabs that have each covered well over 100,000 miles, and none has ever needed significant mechanical work. My sister has a '95 900 -- GM's influence at its worst -- with 160,000 miles. It is absolutely tight and solid, and has been extremely reliable. My wife's '95 Convertible is also an example of GM trying to destroy Saab, but even that remains tight and solid at 95K -- quite remarkable for a very flexible convertible.
While the old 9-3 wasn't especially good to drive, the new ones are very nice to drive. The G35 is probably more entertaining from an enthusiast's perspective. In any kind of bad weather, however, the front-drive Saab would be far more stable.
Saab is as knowledgeable about making crashworthy cars as any company. The Japanese companies are closing the safety gap, but should the worst happen, I'd rather be in a Saab than in a Nissan.
Finally, Saabs have that elusive quality known as "character." Somehow, they're just likable.
The new 9-3 is absolutely NOT just a "rebodied Opel Vectra." Unlike the previous 9-3, which to a considerable degree was a rebodied Opel/Vauxhall, Saab was involved in the new 9-3's platform from the very beginning. That is why it is a far superior car to the old one, and also why the new Opel/Vauxhall is also quite capable. Both the new 9-3 and the Opel/Vauxhall have gotten excellent press from the enthusiast mags in the US and Europe, in stark contrast to their predecessors. The new car is a real competitor to BMW, Audi, etc., while the old one was not. The new platform that the 9-3 shares with the Opell/Vauxhall is so good largely because Saab did so much of the design work.
Saab's build quality is excellent -- easily the equal of the Infiniti, IMO. The fit and finish is excellent, and the quality of the interior materials is markedly better than the Infiniti's. Saabs also last forever. My first car is an '83 Saab Turbo. 20 years later I still have it, now with 266,000 miles. It runs great, and uses NO oil. My family has had more than a half-dozen Saabs that have each covered well over 100,000 miles, and none has ever needed significant mechanical work. My sister has a '95 900 -- GM's influence at its worst -- with 160,000 miles. It is absolutely tight and solid, and has been extremely reliable. My wife's '95 Convertible is also an example of GM trying to destroy Saab, but even that remains tight and solid at 95K -- quite remarkable for a very flexible convertible.
While the old 9-3 wasn't especially good to drive, the new ones are very nice to drive. The G35 is probably more entertaining from an enthusiast's perspective. In any kind of bad weather, however, the front-drive Saab would be far more stable.
Saab is as knowledgeable about making crashworthy cars as any company. The Japanese companies are closing the safety gap, but should the worst happen, I'd rather be in a Saab than in a Nissan.
Finally, Saabs have that elusive quality known as "character." Somehow, they're just likable.
09-10-2003, 02:25 AM
#26
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Recommend the Saab
Hi,
We just sold my 1996 Saab 900 SE Turbo (great car), and we bought a replacement 9-5 Wagon (new baby...bigger car for gear needed). Saab has tremendous incentives on cars now (August and September). The wagon listed for 39,750 (it had every option), total out the door at full price (with taxes and license) would have been ca. $43,000 here in Utah. With the $5500 rebate and the "GM Friends and Family" discount (do you have a sibling that works for GM, EDS, etc?) the out the door price for us was $32,600. The 9-5 is a great car, even better than the 900. For what it is worth, they have similar rebates on the new 9-3 design, if you want a smaller car. The new 9-3 is really cool, with per driver/user customization of over 40 car functions (radio, mirrors, seats, climate control...etc etc) available. Both the 9-5 and 9-3 drive really well and get good mileage (important today given the consumption of the 993 to have a counterbalance). Most important, like the Porsche, its not something everyone else is driving. For myself, I can't really tell the difference between Infiniti/Lexus/etc these days: they're nondescript cars.
Best, Mike
We just sold my 1996 Saab 900 SE Turbo (great car), and we bought a replacement 9-5 Wagon (new baby...bigger car for gear needed). Saab has tremendous incentives on cars now (August and September). The wagon listed for 39,750 (it had every option), total out the door at full price (with taxes and license) would have been ca. $43,000 here in Utah. With the $5500 rebate and the "GM Friends and Family" discount (do you have a sibling that works for GM, EDS, etc?) the out the door price for us was $32,600. The 9-5 is a great car, even better than the 900. For what it is worth, they have similar rebates on the new 9-3 design, if you want a smaller car. The new 9-3 is really cool, with per driver/user customization of over 40 car functions (radio, mirrors, seats, climate control...etc etc) available. Both the 9-5 and 9-3 drive really well and get good mileage (important today given the consumption of the 993 to have a counterbalance). Most important, like the Porsche, its not something everyone else is driving. For myself, I can't really tell the difference between Infiniti/Lexus/etc these days: they're nondescript cars.
Best, Mike
09-10-2003, 08:16 AM
#27
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I've had a couple of Saabs ... there's two basic problems with them, in my view.
1) They depreciate like rocks. You can pick up a 99 9-3 convertible -- your basic $42k Saab -- for about $12k now with reasonable miles. If you're going to keep the car forever, okay ... if you ever plan to sell it or trade it, look out. Compare that to a BMW 3 series convertible.
2) The engineering and build quality, in my opinion, is not so great. I had a 99 9-3 convertible which was in nice shape and very straight. The thing rattled like my 1980 Chevette. I mean LOUD rattles, from the windows, from the top ... it was awful. And the convertible top was very balky and developed a hydraulic fluid leak which caused a "top failure" message on the display and required multiple presses of the top button to get it to go up or down all the way. This is a common problem on the convertibles, and hold on to your a-- because the repair was $2200 as quoted by the dealer. The car was just out of warranty, and did Saab goodwill it? Not on your life. Wouldn't fix the rattles either, even though there are all kinds of bulletins on them. And it's not just convertibles ... get on one of those Saab boards and you'll see all kinds of paranoia about ignition, climate control boxes, etc. ... and I can tell you for a fact that the heated seats on the older Saabs never work because the flimsy wire grid they use to conduct the heat inside the seat breaks and shorts out. Guess how much that repair is? And don't get me started on the oil leaks and the cost for repairing those.
The new 9-3 may be better ... but I kinda doubt it, and its resale is going to be awful, too. Both the Saabs I owned (99 9-3, 96 900S) drove very nice and felt safe, although I have to note that the 9-3 wasn't so great in the snow on "all-season" Michelins. I'm sure it would've been fine on snows.
Vic
95 C4 for sale
1) They depreciate like rocks. You can pick up a 99 9-3 convertible -- your basic $42k Saab -- for about $12k now with reasonable miles. If you're going to keep the car forever, okay ... if you ever plan to sell it or trade it, look out. Compare that to a BMW 3 series convertible.
2) The engineering and build quality, in my opinion, is not so great. I had a 99 9-3 convertible which was in nice shape and very straight. The thing rattled like my 1980 Chevette. I mean LOUD rattles, from the windows, from the top ... it was awful. And the convertible top was very balky and developed a hydraulic fluid leak which caused a "top failure" message on the display and required multiple presses of the top button to get it to go up or down all the way. This is a common problem on the convertibles, and hold on to your a-- because the repair was $2200 as quoted by the dealer. The car was just out of warranty, and did Saab goodwill it? Not on your life. Wouldn't fix the rattles either, even though there are all kinds of bulletins on them. And it's not just convertibles ... get on one of those Saab boards and you'll see all kinds of paranoia about ignition, climate control boxes, etc. ... and I can tell you for a fact that the heated seats on the older Saabs never work because the flimsy wire grid they use to conduct the heat inside the seat breaks and shorts out. Guess how much that repair is? And don't get me started on the oil leaks and the cost for repairing those.
The new 9-3 may be better ... but I kinda doubt it, and its resale is going to be awful, too. Both the Saabs I owned (99 9-3, 96 900S) drove very nice and felt safe, although I have to note that the 9-3 wasn't so great in the snow on "all-season" Michelins. I'm sure it would've been fine on snows.
Vic
95 C4 for sale
09-10-2003, 10:21 AM
#28
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Have you considered the Acura TSX? That was high on my list. Fully loaded with Navigation, the sticker was just under $29K. It had the best interior of any of the cars we looked at, even had airbags on the rear pillars. For the money, it was the best small four door sedan. The only complaints my wife had was the exterior styling (she said it looked like everything else out there) and the low end power (not that the 325 has that much either).
George
George
09-10-2003, 03:47 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Regarding Vic's comments:
My family (parents, sisters, and I) have owned 14 Saabs since 1972. Only one of them was lacking in build quality -- it got rattly at about 60,000 miles. The others have been exemplary in that respect. My wife's '95 Convertible has 95,000 miles and is still commendably free of rattles and squeaks.
Just as someone reading rennlist could get the impression that 993s are very troublesome, with all the issues reported and discussed on this forum, the same is true of the Saab boards.
No argument about resale value -- Saabs don't do well there. Leasing is a great way to avoid that problem.
I drove my wife's Saab thousands of miles this past winter in upstate NY -- Ithaca had 100 inches of snow. It had Michelin all-season tires, and it was very good, IMO, around town and on the interstates during blizzards. With snow tires, Saabs are absolutely superb in the white stuff. Not that this matters much to a Texan...
My family (parents, sisters, and I) have owned 14 Saabs since 1972. Only one of them was lacking in build quality -- it got rattly at about 60,000 miles. The others have been exemplary in that respect. My wife's '95 Convertible has 95,000 miles and is still commendably free of rattles and squeaks.
Just as someone reading rennlist could get the impression that 993s are very troublesome, with all the issues reported and discussed on this forum, the same is true of the Saab boards.
No argument about resale value -- Saabs don't do well there. Leasing is a great way to avoid that problem.
I drove my wife's Saab thousands of miles this past winter in upstate NY -- Ithaca had 100 inches of snow. It had Michelin all-season tires, and it was very good, IMO, around town and on the interstates during blizzards. With snow tires, Saabs are absolutely superb in the white stuff. Not that this matters much to a Texan...
09-10-2003, 04:25 PM
#30
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You may want to check out the Volvo S60. The T-5 is 250hp from a 2.3l and first rate interior. If you can get past the tailights, the styling is awesome, IMHO. I feel they are a great value, as long as you lease and dont pay full sticker. Their resale is crap as well. What is with these Swedish cars anyhow?
The 2003 S60R is 300hp and AWD. May be worth a look. Look up fellow 'lister Phil McGrath. He may be able to help?
The 2003 S60R is 300hp and AWD. May be worth a look. Look up fellow 'lister Phil McGrath. He may be able to help?
