smithk993

I'm trying to decide how to balance between investing in track tires/wheels for doing 2-3 driver's ed's/year or using my street tires/wheels(17" cup wheels) for both.

I'm guessing that around 10-12,000 miles/year of normal daily driving is about it for street tires. What would be an estimate of the numbers of driver's ED a set of tires should last for. I would like to keep the cost on the more manageable side.

I would also need to factor in around $800-$1,000 for a set of track wheels as well.

Eric in Chicago

Another victim approaches the edge of the long slippery slope....

If I were only to do 2 or 3 DE's a year I would stick with street tires.
Look at the facts, how will you get the track tires and 2nd set of wheels to the track? (Honey,I need a trailer...) You will need to start a tool collection to include a good jack, a 18v drill for quick lug removal, or better yet a 12v impact wrench ($300.00) The tires are going to make you go faster, but not fast enough... More mods will creep into you mind, chips,shocks,seats,swaybars,the rennsport windshield washer bottle (for less weight of course) next the rear seats come out, you start surfing e bay for a roll bar,and 5pt harnesses, Steve W. at rennsportsystems will know its you by your voice on the phone. A couple years down the road you will crunch #'s on the 3.8 upgrade and think 13K is not bad for another 18hp... See what I mean?? Dont do it!
On a more serious note, Street tires will last depending on the type of tracks you run. Here in the Midwest we have a couple of tracks that eat tires. I dont know what your skill level is, but if your just starting out or you dont plan on moving out of the lower run groups keep the street tires. You will learn so much more car control and what the limit of your car is by hearing your tires talk to you. This will be more useful in street driving. I was like you a year ago, bought Fiske rims and a set of Hoosiers. Got fast quick, but I went back to street tires for the first half of this season to "learn some more". One more quick note, a novice approached me at RA this weekend as I was putting on a fresh set of Hoosiers, he asked me about my rims and tires. I gave him the same advice as stated above. Later that day he went off in turn 5 (high speed approach, slow 90 degree turn) the pictures of his shunt were wild, the car hit the kitty litter sideways and rolled up on 2 at a 45 degree angle, you could see the whole underside of his car! I dont know how he broke the laws of gravity and did not flip. He was ok and the car checked out, back he went to the track. The next day, he totaled the car (I think) lost it somewhere between turn 6 and 8. Driver was ok but car was not. Now take that same driver on some nice R compound rubber, 15 to 25 mph faster, the shunt in 5 would have ended his day and his car, and the 2nd crash would have been much worse. I know this is off on a tangent and does not address the issue so to wrap it up, you could get some nice Toyos or Kumos that have great grip and drive on the street but they will not last 10K you could also get some PZeros (street) and they will give you good grip and maybe last 7K or you could go hog wild get the track tires and they will last 2-3 seasons before you cord them or the rubber cures and becomes too hard. The last option will have initial start up cost of around 1500-1800.00 for used rims and new rubber. If you do go with track tires, stick with 17's the rubber is cheaper and you will have more choices

996FLT6

If you only do 2-3 De's a year I stick with good set of street tires. If you do like maybe 8-10 then maybe it's a good thing to get track tires and second set of rims. If you go with DOT R compounds versus full race slicks then you'll be able to go back/forth to track as long it's not wet but with slicks you need to tow them which is a bit of a hassle. Regards and good luck. Mike

DJF1

[quote] you could also get some PZeros (street) and they will give you good grip and maybe last 7K or you could go hog wild get the track tires and they will last 2-3 seasons before you cord them or the rubber cures and becomes too hard <hr></blockquote>

Eric...that was my thinking when I mounted the P-Zero's on. The rears lasted 1.1/2 event ( 3days) and 250 street miles on them before they became literally slick... No more grooves no nothing!
So total miles maybe around 500 and I need a new set for the rears...

Smithk I think you should first try a DE with your normal street tires and see the wear on them after the event. It might be worth it for you like it is obvious for me to get a cheap set of kumho's for the track and keep your expensive stock rubber for the street.
There is also another way to solve the problem of having to bring tires on the track. At least on mine there is a guy that will transport and store your tires to and from the track, mount them etc for 50 bucks a weekend. That is not a bad deal and a solution to the problem. I'm sure some creative minds on other tracks do the same thing!

JC in NY

Tire wear seems to go up exponentially as your lap time decreases. In other words as a novice you are going to get a whole season out of your track tires and hardly heat them up. Once you start going really fast those same tires are only going to last you 6 days before they're corded.

MJBird993

Keith,

I agree with what was said here - learn first on streets then progress to "R" compounds later. On that topic though, if you want to "plan ahead" or just disregard the advice and go for "R"s now, I'm selling my car next week. The buyer is taking the track rims/tires, but he's in Atlanta and the logistics are a pain. He may be willing to part with them for $1500 (maybe less!) to save the hassle. 17" cup rims, almost new Kumhos used one weekend. If you're interested, let me know directly.

Michael <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

M758

Stay with street tires. They are the best for one to two DE's per year.

Remember R compound tires can get old and hard over time anyway.

Only go with R tires if you have money to burn, do ALOT of DE's or autocrosses per year, or just drive from the track to home and back.

Otherwise a good set of street tires will do nicely and you will enjoy them.
If you go to R tires too soon you will never apperciate their grip when you do.

I figuere you will be buying tires once per year with 2-3DE's and 10k street miles. Maybe a year and a half depending on the type of those street miles

Martin S.

It depends on the venue of the DEs....well yes, and no. If you push the tires hard, they will wear. R tires feels so good...and they are good for about three (2) 2 day events in my neck of the woods.

I'd advise buy a set of Cup Wheels and some Kumho VictoTacer tires...you'll love them.

Tom W

I'd say try the street tires first and then see what you think. I've not done a DE yet, but after 4 autocross days on street tires I bought a spare set of cup wheels ($400) and put some Ecsta V700's on them ($700) and am very happy with the outcome. The tires make a huge difference in autocross times.

Chris C.

Smith:

If you have the $ to do it, a second set of wheels with R tires is an amazing luxury (and you can drive Kumhos or Sport Cups to the track unless it pours).

I ran SO2s in the track for 3 DE seasons, and got 10K miles on them even with 5-6 DEs a year (of course I am 10-12 seconds off the max my car can do at Road Atlanta in the right hands). If you push them too hard, you can kill street tires in a weekend--right HC?

The heat cycles will definitely harden the tires and you will want to change them after the DE season even if they still have tread. I have no experience with Pzeros, but S02s and Pilot Sports held up well.

It's not a bad compromise until you commit to the DE siren song and the expense of a second set of wheels/tires--or until you get tired of punks with r compounds blowing by you in the turns!!

Have fun.

os993

Here's my experience:

Been doing 5-6 track events the past 3yrs on 17" Cups with street tires (Pirelli P-zeros, SO-2), and just recently found a 2nd set of cups and some used Kuhmo Victoracers..

Definitely good learning on street setup. You get to learn more about your cars limits and how it feels to go sideways.. But, after a while, when you learn about apex's and max speed out of turns, it starts getting pretty hairy.. My last events on street tires were scary, because I always felt close to sliding out..

Now come the victo-racers.. WOW WOW WOW!!! Waaay better. Car is glued to the track like nobody's business, and it makes the whole experience so much more fun! It gave me much more confidence to safely push the limit and stay in control. Definitely the most important upgrade to an enjoyable and safe track experience.

Learn first on street tires. Get the basics down and the control, then once you feel limited by the streets, go with second wheels and tires. I mount my tires at home, and drive to the track..

Then you can get some Pagid orange pads, and you're set like a champ!

Cheers!

Ray Calvo

If you haven't done any track events at all, might try your street tires initially. After about 3 events (guess), your speed would probably be picking up to the point where you'd be chunking the street tires and track tires would be a benefit. Also, might need changing brake pads to a track pad too.

I've got a set of track wheels/tires (Victoracers). I swap to them before heading to a track driver's ed. Harder ride than street tires, and an absolute terror in the rain, tho.