B-Line home

excuse me, who I was going to buy from..

B-Line home

I understand the 20% brake pad rule now.. thanks...
but, if it is certified, how much brake pad does Porsche require??

And if a dealership says it's cars surpasses certification, doesn't that mean that if porsche requires say 80% then this car should have at least 81%.. Not 50%
he didn't say it surpassed state law, he said it surpassed certification which is a high number..I don't know the number exactly though..

Greg Fishman

B-Line,
I agree, they should have told you this stuff up front or at least said they weren't sure. I wouldn't be happy either if I had spent $250 to find problems they should have known about from the begining.
I would talk to the sales manager and explain why you are disappointed, and you would hope that he will fix the problems and honor your deal or at a minimum refund your PPI (I know this probably isn't going to happen) since you were lied to in the begining about the cars condition.

Greg

Phil

no always get the ppi, but here is a question for you, "one doctor says you have 1 month to live!:", do you get a 2nd opin?, I mean after all he is a "trusted" doctor?

B-Line home

Thanks Greg..

I appreciate the sound advice..
I'm not too concerned about the $250.. It actually saved me over $3000.
I am hoping they will make the car right. Take a loss or break even on it and certify it.
I know this is wishful thinking. If they don't though, I really don't think they deserve the title of best customer satisfaction in the country. Not that it really means anything, just the point.
I am an honest, good willed, businessman. I make mistakes sometimes. We all do. But when I do, I do everything in my power to right the wrong even if it costs me money.
My reputation is something that is impt. to me and if this dealership wants to retain there ora of customer satisfaction then let them work to satisfy me.
So maybe they'll break even on one deal, would that be the worst thing in the world.
It's the point that matters.
We have all taken losses at one time or another be it in the stock market, a client, broken equipment, whatever.
This is one of those situations where a dealership needs to step up to the plate that they created..

Phil

well, hell I am done!...for whatever reason, I thought you were dealing with "champion", in any case, it is what it is!, At my dealerships, if there is a problem , I just get it fixed,

B-Line home

Phil..
Of course I would get a second opinion. If he said the car was immaculate then I would probably get another opinion. I expected some minor scratches and dings though etc.
But he told me the car is not what it should be, why would I not trust that.
The PPI guy was recommended to me buy a PCA board member.
I have to trust someone.. Might as well trust the guy who has nothing to gain or lose by telling me the car isn't how it should be.
He has more to lose by telling me the car isn't good. He's not trying to sell me a car. Nor is he trying to have me pay him for the repairs. He knew that when the ppi was done he was out of the picture. So what reason would he have to lie?
Now the dealership...I can think of one good reason they would lie.. $$$$$$$
The PPI guy made the same either way.

B-Line home

Me too,
thanks for the input...

I'll let you know how it goes..
wish me luck!

brandon

B-line,

Glad to hear that you're finding out about "problems" before you bought the car. Don't overreact though - it sounds like you have a car that is in the 95th percentile for your desires (including price). Be firm in your negotiation and use the knowledge gained from the PPI to wring as much more out of the price and additional services as you can (and get the certification). As you said, they have the opportunity to prove they're #1 in customer service - let them know too that you will let the let the "world" know it as well. I'd bet a dollar that someone within the next 3 months will ask about dealership experiences on this board and you will DEFINITELY have an informed opinion on it.

FWIW, I spent $400 on PPI's for two cars I didn't buy (and was told they were nearly perfect - HA!)

I also had a PPI done on my current car, which the dealer seemed annoyed with (as though I didn't trust them). Turned up a few very minor things the dealer DIDN'T mention, but was still a solid car.

B-Line, as a general rule I don't trust car dealers (although Phil would love to make the analogy to doctors, I've never known a car salesman to take a hypocratic oath )

Phil, no offense, but the car sales industry has EARNED its reputation. My personal experience (purchasing my last 8 cars) in all but one I experienced intentional dishonesty on the part of the dealership staff (sales, manager, title & paperwork department). I hope that you will single-handedly be able to change the reputation of your industry through your own ethics.

Best of Luck,

Phil

wow, car dealers are one of the most regualted, dmv intensive , etc!now of course i have no idea about dealer lic. in other states, I am in cal. 10k bond, plus all the other crap, plus being a new car dealer, I have to deal will with all factory to consumer issues!....funny thing, is.....if the factory screws up!!!!!!!.....well we better do the best to go after the dealer!!!!take my stars if you all like, but under stand this..........If you run out of gas, its your own fault......oh wait, should i buy you gas? I mean you may have been promised a free tank of gas?....Jesus christ(sorry) for the most part you are all wonderfull people, and on the other hand, there are a few .......that just wine!!!!...sorry for just venting.......doh!!!!.......your out of gas, oil, and know its the dealers problem?????????????

brandon

Sorry Phil, I wish my experiences had been different - FWIW my one experience where the dealer wasn't "fishy" was in CA The others weren't cases of "honest mistakes", they were deliberate attempts to mislead in order to "make the sale" or increase the profit. The other states were - New Mexico, Texas, Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina.
Phil, the good news is we're all on the same team here (993 fans!) - just trying to stay informed. Maybe you could give us some insight into how to negotiate a better deal w/ a dealer Sorry we're so far OT

VICODIN993S

B-line...why not consider buying private party? 1st off the seller isn't usually trying to make a profit. Make no mistake...that profit is(are) your dollars. Do the same DD, carfax,ppi. The owner will probably give you some valuable insight into the newest part of your family. This is strictly my .02. I got mine in Oct. I was goaded(counseled) by my brother who has one also, and I had 60k burnin a hole in my pocket! I was looking at all available 993s's in a 200 mi. radius. To a tee, and this is a testament to porsche owners everywhere, all were forthcoming with the warts of each car. I also got a history lesson, each owner's driving philosophy etc.
I personally felt better dealing w/ a person who might be getting out from under a payment than someone who was trying to get me into a 996. You're going to be without one for less time than you're gonna have one, so keep all your options open! The very best of luck. Looking forward to seein your new car. J

B-Line home

Hey Vico..

Thanks for the advice and you do have a good point. But, in my research this is what I have discovered. Persons selling a CarreraS privately want more money for the car then the dealer equivalent.
It's kind of unusual actually but the best prices are coming from the dealers who actually have the car.
Private owners are holding onto the cars hoping they will find a buyer who will give them a better deal on the car.
Dealers who are holding them have adjusted there prices to market value which is considerably low right now for that car.
Trade in value of the car is real bad. So a dealer who takes the car on trade can still make a nice profit selling it cheap.
They are only paying in the mid to high 40's on trade in.
Retail dealers (non porsch certified) are also charging more than the dealerships.
So, in my research I have found that I can get a better deal with certification from a dealer. If I found a private party at the same price I would buy but that hasn't been the case so far.
I will keep looking though..
Besides, I tell every private owner that has one the same thing. Hold on to the car. You won't get what you want for it right now because the market is so low. But in a few years I think it will have much more value.
Most say, "your right, I'm going to hold the car." Not many C2S owners are willing to part with there car for low 50's!!
And I don't blame any of you..
It's worth much more in my opinion..
Like stocks, it's a good time to buy but a bad time to sell.

Edward

Dealers...hmmm reminds me of a lawyer joke
I have to agree with Phil in that far too many blame a dealer as a reflex response (I mean this in the general sense, so no offense, B-line). Remember, car sales, like any other business --make no mistake, medicine IS a business-- depends on knowledge and expertise of BOTH parties. Would you trust a doctor or lawyer COMPLETELY without learning as much as you can to serve YOUR best interests? Like many of you, I have had both good and nightmarish experience with dealers, but that goes the same with mechanics as well...you know, the ones performing those PPIs. And don't get me started on Body Shops! From what I've read so far, B-line, you're not in as bad a shape as you think (I like the idea of going with the RS flywheel), and the dealership really may not be trying to cheat you. Have you thought that maybe the flywheel and brakes really aren't as bad as the PPI shop makes them out to be, or perhaps that the dealer still finds them "servicable" and in proportion to the price of the car? No flame intended, B-line, but perhaps you might want to really drive more cars, not just look, to find out for yourself what's "normal" and what's not with the 993 (if you have, I apologize in advance). It's just that I understand Phil's frustration at being blamed for what often amounts to a shared responsibility of both parties involved. Good luck on the hunt !

Edward

jw97C2S

B-line

Sometimes it takes a little while to find a great "S" at a great price but it will happen eventually. After a 6 month search I bought mine from an authorized Porsche dealer 9 months ago for $52.5 - it didn't have the aero package but only had 17k miles. I had a body shop for the paint inspection (no panels repainted whatsoever)and a repair shop for the mechanical (code fault diagnosed and repaired. As far as whether a warranty is needed, I haven't had a single problem since the purchase date (except for the requirement of an alignment after installing the euro M030)

Good luck!!
Jim