Instead of a Carbon Fiber Key Fob - And More Useful - Carbon Fiber Motor Mount
08-19-2003, 10:01 PM
#1
Carbon Fiber Motor Mount-And If You Really Like Technology You Might Like Page Two
A few weeks ago, someone asked for a carbon fiber key fob -- a better idea might be carbon fiber motor mounts with a bonded titanium boss -- very rigid, perhaps too rigid for some -- and very light.
Last edited by Robert Linton; 08-21-2003 at 05:34 PM.
08-20-2003, 12:12 AM
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So are these possible for production like the GT2 brace? I'm looking for solid mounts at the moment but I have a feeling these would be out of my league.
08-20-2003, 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Robert Linton
I promise you will see it.
I promise you will see it.
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08-20-2003, 05:20 AM
#9
Princeton:
Should you wish, I will obtain a price for a set of the carbon fiber mounts -- which, by the way, are identical for Type 993 and Type 964.
JC:
The original Porsche Motorsport solid mounts were magnesium.
Harold:
As noted else, we are working on two final matters, the transmission and wiring. With luck (and hard work) these improvements should be made over the next few months and the car should be ready by late fall or depending upon the level of Tiptronic transmission effort (e.g., carbon fiber casing, titanium torque converter, etc.) possibly year end.
Graham:
Although, I, too, think carbon fiber is best used to reduce weight and/or improve performance, Porsche sells quite a bit of outstanding quality carbon fiber interior applique that many like and for which many are willing to pay quite dearly. In the U.S., for example, the "large" carbon fiber interior trim applique option carries a suggested price of $6220.
Should you wish, I will obtain a price for a set of the carbon fiber mounts -- which, by the way, are identical for Type 993 and Type 964.
JC:
The original Porsche Motorsport solid mounts were magnesium.
Harold:
As noted else, we are working on two final matters, the transmission and wiring. With luck (and hard work) these improvements should be made over the next few months and the car should be ready by late fall or depending upon the level of Tiptronic transmission effort (e.g., carbon fiber casing, titanium torque converter, etc.) possibly year end.
Graham:
Although, I, too, think carbon fiber is best used to reduce weight and/or improve performance, Porsche sells quite a bit of outstanding quality carbon fiber interior applique that many like and for which many are willing to pay quite dearly. In the U.S., for example, the "large" carbon fiber interior trim applique option carries a suggested price of $6220.
08-20-2003, 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Robert Linton
Although, I, too, think carbon fiber is best used to reduce weight and/or improve performance, Porsche sells quite a bit of outstanding quality carbon fiber interior applique that many like and for which many are willing to pay quite dearly. In the U.S., for example, the "large" carbon fiber interior trim applique option carries a suggested price of $6220.
Although, I, too, think carbon fiber is best used to reduce weight and/or improve performance, Porsche sells quite a bit of outstanding quality carbon fiber interior applique that many like and for which many are willing to pay quite dearly. In the U.S., for example, the "large" carbon fiber interior trim applique option carries a suggested price of $6220.
Robert,
Is the Porsche carbon fiber interior trim an actual CF laminated with epoxy onto the original plastic pieces or is it a CF sticker?
Would you mind sharing the brand name of the resin that was used in your new exhaust?
Is there any reason you are not using composite flow molded fasteners?
Thanks,
Jason
08-20-2003, 08:32 AM
#11
Carbon fiber mat applied with 2K adhesive and polyester on top. As to the CFM fasteners, for certain uses they would work but in very limited quantities the cost versus the gain (or, in this case, reduction) cannot be justified. Two answers out of 20 -- not bad!!
08-20-2003, 11:38 AM
#13
FYI -- in small quantities, a set of the carbon fiber/titanium engine mounts would cost approximately $1100 -- certainly not inexpensive but, unfortunately, the ultimate rarely is. Weight = 115 grams each.
08-20-2003, 02:09 PM
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Robert,
As always the pictures of the parts you post astound me, they seem to be elevated above mere utilitarianism, to the point of being art in and of themselves. It warms my heart to see that the idea of craftsmanship has not completely disappeared from our society, and the praise you receive from my fellow Rennlisters tells me I am not alone in my opinion.
I just have to say, from my limited perspective, the choice of carbon fiber for engine mounts seems strange given the high loads and the potential for vibration. Did you have concerns about failure of the part? What kind of service life can you expect from these motor mounts? Were other materials considered and rejected, you mentioned that Porsche had used magnesium? The other nagging concern I have is the high temperature applications, like exhaust components, but I don't even want to broach that subject given my low level of knowledge about such matters.
The perspective I mentioned above is from working on aircraft for the last twenty years or so. I have seen a fair share of composite delaminations, degradations and failures, they are rarely catastrophic, full failures of a part, but then the parts aren't subjected to the kind of forces one would expect from duty as an engine mount. In the main the composite structures we use are unstressed fairings/cowlings or flight controls and surfaces that get aerodynamic loads, which I imagine are nothing compared to the magnitudes and frequencies a main structural element like a motor mount would be subjected to. Also, 99% of the time in aircraft if a composite part weakens it has the luxury of being supported by good old fashioned metal alloy (some newer aircraft are not so). Surely aircraft parts and automobile parts differ not in the kinds of forces they are subject to, but in the consequences of failure; pulling to the side of the road is fundamentally different from plummeting from five miles high, hence I can see how the design criteria for aircraft parts would be skewed towards caution instead of innovation. It has been a long time coming in my industry that composites are taking their place in truly structural roles, the learning curve only built slowly to where they are now sometimes accepted. Incredibly versatile and useful materials, but not the 'magic bullet' solution they were hailed to be when first produced.
Please don't take any of my questions or comments as criticism of your design process, I am just truly curious as to how these parts evolve from idea to reality. The quality and technical beauty of the parts you've already posted pictures of bespeak that the resources you have access to would only be granted to someone who had earned a high level of respect for their decisions and expertise. Your statement about shaving 450 kg off of a 993 is mind boggling to say the least.
Best of luck completing your project, I can't wait to see the final product.
As always the pictures of the parts you post astound me, they seem to be elevated above mere utilitarianism, to the point of being art in and of themselves. It warms my heart to see that the idea of craftsmanship has not completely disappeared from our society, and the praise you receive from my fellow Rennlisters tells me I am not alone in my opinion.
I just have to say, from my limited perspective, the choice of carbon fiber for engine mounts seems strange given the high loads and the potential for vibration. Did you have concerns about failure of the part? What kind of service life can you expect from these motor mounts? Were other materials considered and rejected, you mentioned that Porsche had used magnesium? The other nagging concern I have is the high temperature applications, like exhaust components, but I don't even want to broach that subject given my low level of knowledge about such matters.
The perspective I mentioned above is from working on aircraft for the last twenty years or so. I have seen a fair share of composite delaminations, degradations and failures, they are rarely catastrophic, full failures of a part, but then the parts aren't subjected to the kind of forces one would expect from duty as an engine mount. In the main the composite structures we use are unstressed fairings/cowlings or flight controls and surfaces that get aerodynamic loads, which I imagine are nothing compared to the magnitudes and frequencies a main structural element like a motor mount would be subjected to. Also, 99% of the time in aircraft if a composite part weakens it has the luxury of being supported by good old fashioned metal alloy (some newer aircraft are not so). Surely aircraft parts and automobile parts differ not in the kinds of forces they are subject to, but in the consequences of failure; pulling to the side of the road is fundamentally different from plummeting from five miles high, hence I can see how the design criteria for aircraft parts would be skewed towards caution instead of innovation. It has been a long time coming in my industry that composites are taking their place in truly structural roles, the learning curve only built slowly to where they are now sometimes accepted. Incredibly versatile and useful materials, but not the 'magic bullet' solution they were hailed to be when first produced.
Please don't take any of my questions or comments as criticism of your design process, I am just truly curious as to how these parts evolve from idea to reality. The quality and technical beauty of the parts you've already posted pictures of bespeak that the resources you have access to would only be granted to someone who had earned a high level of respect for their decisions and expertise. Your statement about shaving 450 kg off of a 993 is mind boggling to say the least.
Best of luck completing your project, I can't wait to see the final product.