Greg A

I have a friend who sent his car to a shop for some high power performance modifications. No one has ever said a bad word about this shop on Rennlist—we’ve searched everywhere on here to confirm this. The results are nothing but praise, admiration, and confidence in this shop’s word and their work. The car was delivered to this shop during the middle of 2012. After numerous promises, questionable excuses, unreturned emails, and unreturned phone calls the car is still not completed. My friend has been more patient than I think is reasonable, but he is close to going over the edge on this. Is it normal for a well-respected shop to take more than 2 years to complete a project? My friend is looking for some guidance from the experts here on methods to resolve this without going nuclear on the shop in question. Believe me, he’s had his finger on the launch button for months.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Greg A

JasonAndreas

TWO YEARS??? First thing is to warn other 993 owners of the place by posting the facts and nothing but the facts. Porsche shops all over the east and west coast are notorious for regularly screwing people over but nothing ever gets publicized because "it was an isolated incident."

Grapeape

I have had projects take longer than expected and if my calls were not returned I would go to the shop when the owners car was there and ask to be given an update on progress.

budge96

I have heard of two or more sometimes many years for an all out ground up resto or
extensive body / chassis repairs but over twenty four months for an engine replacement
upgrade or even rebuild is stretching it to put it mildly.
I would advise your friend to hit launch and bring whatever legal recourse he has to bare
because obviously he's being shafted..
Bert

Spyder_Man

Having my 993 at the shop for nearly a month to get the steering/suspension sorted out was bad enough, I cannot imagine going 2 years without the car because of slow service by a mechanic.

Once a shady mechanic has got your car all pulled apart, they know they've got your ***** in a vice and your wallet in their pocket, so to speak. I'd be exercising the nuclear option at this point if I were in his shoes.

Mike J

Yes, facts are important since their is always two sides to each story - sometimes though one side's story in this case seems pretty crappy.

What exactly is being done, a 3.8 rebuild? With the proper parts in place, that is not much more work than a normal rebuild - even if other things are being done, 2 years is way way way over the top. It should take a few months tops for a pro shop.

Your friend needs to talk to the owner of the shop, and give them clear deadlines and the consequences of missing a deadline in a written document. He does not have to be an ****ole, but be firm, and if something is missed, take action! Negotiation with them, and get agreement, If they have excuses like "oh, we cannot trust our supplier" then that would be a BIG warning flag and I would pull the car.

One of the deadlines can be for instance that the engine long block is complete, or the engine is in the car - the final deadline, that the car is finished and can be picked up, if missed perhaps the consequence can be that a tow truck is showing up to remove the car, and no payment will be made for any parts, or another might be the lawsuit is launched.

I would hold-back money in this case because TT's can be tricky, and if they screwed up you need a lever. In once case, I had a car in the shop, 50 miles on a full "performance" rebuild on a TT, and one piston had a 25% leakdown - and the bill had been paid. I could not believe the mechanic was trying to convince me that it was "carbon" under the valve seat then the engine had 50 miles on it. Make sure there is a lever of some kind.

If not clear deadlines and possible financial penalties are put to them in writing the agreement is all verbal and always subject to interpretations. Both parties sign the document, this is key since they will then consider it serious and read the thing. If they don't want to sign, then I would remove the car, they are not being serious.

You have a few levers : One is money- no work done, no pay. The second is reputation: You will detail out the details of the work to be done and post them here on Rennlist. If they meet the dates, hurrah and they have recovered their reputation, if they miss, they are sunk.

I am not sure if its gone that serious yet, but come on, losing a car for two years is totally nuts. Even I am not that slow!

Cheers,

Mike

NP993

There must be two sides to this story. If the shop said the rebuild would take, say, one month, I'd have pulled my car out of there after twice that time (max) barring a legitimate reason why the work wasn't done. But this car has been there for two years. And the owner has simply let this go on, consequence-free. That can't be the whole story.

Greg A

Jason,

It is not my car and not my money, so if my friend gives the OK to post the name I will. I think I have only found one negative post regarding this shop on Rennlist. The shop owner posts here as well. The situation as I know it is that this was supposed to be a 3.8 rebuild of a NA 3.6 that had already been converted to a TT setup. There was some other work to the car being done as well.

My friend went to the shop, another friend went to the shop on a separate occasion, but all they receive is unverifiable information on his progress. The shop owner, when he responds to my friend's phone calls or emails, keeps telling him that he is working all out to get the car done, but never provides any tangible proof of this. The car was running when my friend visited the shop earlier this year.

Thank you. He is very close to doing just that.

The car--at least earlier this year--was assembled and running.

I mentioned above that it was a NA 3.6 converted to TT and then being rebuilt as a 3.8. There were some other chassis related items being addressed as well. My friend has had multiple deadlines come and go. Granted, these were not presented in writing by a lawyer, but I think that will happen soon. My friend made the final payment a few months ago when he thought the car was finished and within days of being returned to him.

There are two sides to every story. I don't know why you think my friend has "simply let this go on" but when he thought the car was almost finished and was arranging for delivery, why would he pull it then? That turned out to not be the case, but how many shops are interested in inheriting a project like this? I already know of two that declined. I hope my friend will post himself and he can relate his side of this experience. As I said, the shop owner posts on Rennlist. He is always very helpful to other posters here. Maybe he will explain the problem that's preventing the car from being completed if he sees this.

Thank you all for your advice! My friend and I both appreciate it.

Greg A

OverBoosted28

Tell ya right now, they are screwing your friend. If he's already paid them in full and they have not provided his car to him, it's a scam. Don't be surprised when they call your friend and say "it was completed and somehow got stolen" "oh by the way, did you see our sign that states we're not responsible for thefts"?
His mistake was being this patient and then paying them (let alone anything), but in full???
Give us this east or west coast?

TMc993

This type of post does absolutely nothing to inform or assist the people who frequent the site. Vague references to a shop owner who, "...posts on Rennlist" only serve to unfairly put every shop owner who posts here under suspicion. Your "friend" should man-up and deal with the situation. If he can't or won't, then he deserves to have his car continue to sit in said shop.

Greg A

I hope you are wrong, but we will see. My friend has not given me permission to give out that information at this time.

Thank you for your opinion. It is not every shop that has done this, but one shop. Perhaps I have used vague references because it is not my car, not my money, and I would like to avoid setting myself up for a libel suit. My friend asked me to post, and I did. I understand you think this post is useless, but may I ask how you would advise my friend (no quotes b/c I am not the car's owner or involved in this transaction) to deal with the situation?

Thank you,

Greg A

Sheams993

Must be a character limit for non members? The highly detailed side of the story disappeared when I tried to post it. Here is the short side:

-car (1998 993 cab) was sent for a revamp years after the first TT conversion at same shop.
-my dad went overboard with a 3.8 big turbo build, rebuilt tranny, etc, etc, etc....
-my dad passes away dec 2012 roughly 5 months after the car was sent.
-I have been down to shop twice
-communication is crappy
-tranny had to be rebuilt twice (stuff happens)
-motor was running but after I was told the car was done and after final payment was sent, there was a "major problem" which was in early May.
-now not seeing "proper numbers" whatever the hell that means
-still no car!!!

Just to give everyone an idea, the start date was July 13th? 2012. At this time I WILL NOT reveal the shop name. Say what you will. I believe they do great work but the business side is atrocious. I just want my car back. I was just looking for advice as many of you are more seasoned in this arena. Final payment should not have been sent but I try to be prompt and I had no reason not to have trust. That also does not justify this situation.

Sheams993

I do appreciate the insight. However, it is not my intention to dirty anyone's name and reputation at this time. There is a deadline of ANYTIME BEFORE AUGUST 28th so I can drive my happy a$& to Road America to watch some racing. Now, if said deadline is not met, "manning up" will be in full force. "Manning up" has already commenced but is currently in a "manning up" holding pattern to give the shop owner one more chance. Yes, one more chance. Trust me, no one will be able to say there was not enough time or chances!

goofballdeluxe

If final payment was sent before the car was done, you've given away all your power. One of the first rules of business is you never give final payment until the work is completed to your satisfaction. When you violated this basic rule, you made a critical judgement error of the first magnitude.

Add the fact that you've waited 2 years, and only visited the shop TWICE? The shop probably sees you as an ignorant pushover.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but it's also safe to say that you've added to your misery by giving too much money too soon, and waaaay too much time to this crappy garage.

If it were me, I'd be calling the cops and reporting my car stolen by this mechanic if you don't get it back in perfect working order on August 28th. There may be a chance you need to lawyer up to get out of this mess.

Good luck with this. I suspect you'll need lots of it.

Sheams993

Yes, as I stated, final payment should not have been sent. I was told the "car would be done in three days, I'm just finishing up some odds and ends". Pushover up to this point, yes. As I stated, he did work for us before and it went well on all fronts so I had no inclination to believe he was up to anything unsavory. It was at the point I learned the checks were cashed that really frosted my *****.