Inaugural PCA Event at Barber MSP
04-28-2003, 10:22 AM
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Burning Brakes
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Inaugural PCA Event at Barber MSP
Hi Everyone,
I just returned from the first PCA DE held at Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, AL. I wanted to share my thoughts while the event was still fresh in my mind, and hopefully hear from those of you who also attended.
The track and facilities are first rate, on par, or better than anything else in the southeast region. The only complaint I had about the layout was that the paddock area was not very pedestrian friendly, the tiers of the paddock faced you with a long walk between access roads up and down, or a slippery traverse via the grass embankments. It is a small complaint, but added stairways would be a nice improvement.
The track itself is quite demanding compared to my usual stomping grounds at Road Atlanta. The only places I found to gather myself and check my gauges were the front straight and the straight after the hairpin at turn 5, the rest of the time you are busy enough that sightseeing is not an option. I'm not sure I would recommend this as a track to go to for your first or second DE.
It took me most of the weekend to learn the track, but I have never claimed to be the sharpest pencil in the box...only by the last two sessions Sunday was I able to build some speed and rhythm. Kudos to my instructor Tom Egan from the Alabama PCA, you are top notch, with a lesser instructor I would have never gotten to the point where I would enjoy the track within just one weekend.
Many thanks to Don, Peter, and Bob at Performance Imports for setting up my car in "learner mode" for my first event in the new to me 993. A little understeer can be beneficial when learning a new car, and a new track at the same time.
By hook or crook I will make it back to Barber, highly recommended, two thumbs up.
I just returned from the first PCA DE held at Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, AL. I wanted to share my thoughts while the event was still fresh in my mind, and hopefully hear from those of you who also attended.
The track and facilities are first rate, on par, or better than anything else in the southeast region. The only complaint I had about the layout was that the paddock area was not very pedestrian friendly, the tiers of the paddock faced you with a long walk between access roads up and down, or a slippery traverse via the grass embankments. It is a small complaint, but added stairways would be a nice improvement.
The track itself is quite demanding compared to my usual stomping grounds at Road Atlanta. The only places I found to gather myself and check my gauges were the front straight and the straight after the hairpin at turn 5, the rest of the time you are busy enough that sightseeing is not an option. I'm not sure I would recommend this as a track to go to for your first or second DE.
It took me most of the weekend to learn the track, but I have never claimed to be the sharpest pencil in the box...only by the last two sessions Sunday was I able to build some speed and rhythm. Kudos to my instructor Tom Egan from the Alabama PCA, you are top notch, with a lesser instructor I would have never gotten to the point where I would enjoy the track within just one weekend.
Many thanks to Don, Peter, and Bob at Performance Imports for setting up my car in "learner mode" for my first event in the new to me 993. A little understeer can be beneficial when learning a new car, and a new track at the same time.
By hook or crook I will make it back to Barber, highly recommended, two thumbs up.
04-28-2003, 10:38 AM
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Thanks for the info Chuck. I am planning on getting down there for a race in November with PBOC ( <a href="http://www.pbocflorida.com" target="_blank">www.pbocflorida.com</a> ). I hope some of the Texas contingent will make it as well (Glen, DJ, and Robert, the enduro meister)
Grand Am is running there this month and it will be interesting to see them run on this new track.
Grand Am is running there this month and it will be interesting to see them run on this new track.
04-28-2003, 11:15 AM
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Greg,
Have fun on the new track.
I don't race, so take these pointers for what they are worth. The 'easiest' places I found to gain on traffic were:
1) Through the corkscrew, slightly late apex 7, then it is a straight shot through 7a to 7b and steep downhill, most people were gliding down to set up for the sharp right at 7b, but you can blip the throttle here and get about a car length on someone who is coasting (or if they didn't straighten the corkscrew). I still need more practice at 7b, I saw people take about 70 different lines through it, so one must be right.
2) Turn 12, WAIT FOR IT !, back out of the throttle about 2/3 the way between 11 and 12 to get the rear to come out slightly, turn in, back to full throttle early, before the apex, to the top of the blind hill, lots of drift here, but room for it if you don't apex early, and going uphill helps to grip. A lot of people were intimidated by cresting a blind hill (rightly so?) making a good place for gains.
3) If you figure out 14a let me know, otherwise just apex very, very late.
FWIW the stock 993 gearbox, diff is a little high for this track. With appropriate gearing it would be all 3rd and 4th, but I had to grab 2nd in a couple of places wasting precious moments with my hamfisted shifting technique.
Sorry I missed my chance to ride with Hank Cohen, he was turning 1:43 and change, blistering, (they were timing my laps with a sun dial), I would have learned a lot more.
Cheers,
Have fun on the new track.
I don't race, so take these pointers for what they are worth. The 'easiest' places I found to gain on traffic were:
1) Through the corkscrew, slightly late apex 7, then it is a straight shot through 7a to 7b and steep downhill, most people were gliding down to set up for the sharp right at 7b, but you can blip the throttle here and get about a car length on someone who is coasting (or if they didn't straighten the corkscrew). I still need more practice at 7b, I saw people take about 70 different lines through it, so one must be right.
2) Turn 12, WAIT FOR IT !, back out of the throttle about 2/3 the way between 11 and 12 to get the rear to come out slightly, turn in, back to full throttle early, before the apex, to the top of the blind hill, lots of drift here, but room for it if you don't apex early, and going uphill helps to grip. A lot of people were intimidated by cresting a blind hill (rightly so?) making a good place for gains.
3) If you figure out 14a let me know, otherwise just apex very, very late.
FWIW the stock 993 gearbox, diff is a little high for this track. With appropriate gearing it would be all 3rd and 4th, but I had to grab 2nd in a couple of places wasting precious moments with my hamfisted shifting technique.
Sorry I missed my chance to ride with Hank Cohen, he was turning 1:43 and change, blistering, (they were timing my laps with a sun dial), I would have learned a lot more.
Cheers,
04-28-2003, 11:25 AM
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Greg, there is little info on their website as to what the club is all about and what are the rules, classes etc. Do you have any more info? they seems to run monster enduros!LOL.. I have to add that oil cooler on the tranny to pull one of these off with Robert doing most of the driving <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
04-28-2003, 11:31 AM
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DJF1,
I'm sure you will mine some more information, but I worked grid at the PBOC event at Road Atlanta, and they ran a DE and a race on the same weekend. I think the races were 30 laps.
I'm sure you will mine some more information, but I worked grid at the PBOC event at Road Atlanta, and they ran a DE and a race on the same weekend. I think the races were 30 laps.
04-28-2003, 11:38 AM
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Chuck,
Thanks for the info. You should have gotten a ride with Hank, I can confer that he is a great driver and racer as well as a heck of a nice guy.
DJ,
This PBOC group was basically a spin off of the west coast POC chapter. They apparently started doing events with a BMW club and had great turnouts. Classes are similar to PCA but the way they come up with the divisions are by points given to certain mods. What class you are in is not a big deal IMO because there usually is only one large race group (I think we had 40 at Road Atlanta last year). We had everything from 996 Cup cars to BMW 2002s. It was fun racing with other marques.
FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...
Thanks for the info. You should have gotten a ride with Hank, I can confer that he is a great driver and racer as well as a heck of a nice guy.
DJ,
This PBOC group was basically a spin off of the west coast POC chapter. They apparently started doing events with a BMW club and had great turnouts. Classes are similar to PCA but the way they come up with the divisions are by points given to certain mods. What class you are in is not a big deal IMO because there usually is only one large race group (I think we had 40 at Road Atlanta last year). We had everything from 996 Cup cars to BMW 2002s. It was fun racing with other marques.
FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...
04-28-2003, 11:49 AM
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Greg,
Roger that, Hank is a helluva nice guy.
He treats me like a peer whether I am driving or working at an event, even though his skills far exceed mine. The mark of a true gentleman is when a driver treats the workers with respect, and thanks them for making the weekend possible.
I'll get that ride.
Roger that, Hank is a helluva nice guy.
He treats me like a peer whether I am driving or working at an event, even though his skills far exceed mine. The mark of a true gentleman is when a driver treats the workers with respect, and thanks them for making the weekend possible.
I'll get that ride.
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04-28-2003, 03:30 PM
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A good friend was there with his newly acquired 993 RSR (green #14) and from the excitement in his voice Saturady night it sounds like it's a must drive. We're looking for another event in B'ham to get signed up in. Hopefully it's sooner than later.
Hank, I wish I knew you were going to be there. I would have made sure you an Tom hooked up. He bought Corey's RSR. I went to Charleston with him to pick it up. He says it's awesome and can barely control himself when he stats talking about it.
Hank, I wish I knew you were going to be there. I would have made sure you an Tom hooked up. He bought Corey's RSR. I went to Charleston with him to pick it up. He says it's awesome and can barely control himself when he stats talking about it.
04-28-2003, 05:59 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well a bit of both really. On the sprint races over the 20 min mark the box would get really mussy and I could not find a gear anymore. Then literally 5 minutes later after the car was parked the box returned to normal shifting. We took out all the box related underside trays and it helped with cooling. Since my race was a day before I had to go to work I do not know yet the results of the investigation by my mechanic, we suspected a lot of things, one of them to install an oil cooler. I only managed to finish one race ( the last one of the day ) and I made a point to shift less, but that should not really be the way the box should be used.
<strong>FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well a bit of both really. On the sprint races over the 20 min mark the box would get really mussy and I could not find a gear anymore. Then literally 5 minutes later after the car was parked the box returned to normal shifting. We took out all the box related underside trays and it helped with cooling. Since my race was a day before I had to go to work I do not know yet the results of the investigation by my mechanic, we suspected a lot of things, one of them to install an oil cooler. I only managed to finish one race ( the last one of the day ) and I made a point to shift less, but that should not really be the way the box should be used.
04-28-2003, 07:33 PM
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Chuck and Greg:
Thank you for your very kind words. Big thanks to the guys and ladies of the Alabama Region who put together a first rate event at BMP is in order too. Like Chuck said, the place is incredible. Each track session gives you a greater appreciation for the facility and, more importantly, the track designer. I have only had one other opportunity to drive on a new track and that was Carolina Motorsports Park. In my opinion, BMP is a much more sophisticated track than CMP and, the facilities are in a league of their own. Thanks, Mr. Barber.
It will take me some time to really feel like I am getting the most out of my driving there and I know there are 2 to 4 more seconds to be shaved off my best time. The track offers great elevation changes, blind turns, a table top smooth surface and the best curbing I have ever experienced.
Also, like Chuck said, the guys at Performance Imports gave me a perfect car to drive too. It is great to only have to concentrate on improving your line, changing braking points and throttle application points without worrying about living with a poorly balanced car.
If anyone has the opportunity to drive there, I highly recommend it. A lot of people during the weekend were commenting on how technical the track is and how little time there is to gather your thoughts. I think that is always the case with a new track. My experience was that once I got a feel for the track’s flow, there was plenty of time to plan the next series of turns and reflect on the last series. It is a finesse track in several sections that rewards maximizing corner entry speeds and patience on the throttle but, for me anyway, it is the perfect track that allows a driver to do some of that “driver stuff.”
Thanks again,
Hank
Thank you for your very kind words. Big thanks to the guys and ladies of the Alabama Region who put together a first rate event at BMP is in order too. Like Chuck said, the place is incredible. Each track session gives you a greater appreciation for the facility and, more importantly, the track designer. I have only had one other opportunity to drive on a new track and that was Carolina Motorsports Park. In my opinion, BMP is a much more sophisticated track than CMP and, the facilities are in a league of their own. Thanks, Mr. Barber.
It will take me some time to really feel like I am getting the most out of my driving there and I know there are 2 to 4 more seconds to be shaved off my best time. The track offers great elevation changes, blind turns, a table top smooth surface and the best curbing I have ever experienced.
Also, like Chuck said, the guys at Performance Imports gave me a perfect car to drive too. It is great to only have to concentrate on improving your line, changing braking points and throttle application points without worrying about living with a poorly balanced car.
If anyone has the opportunity to drive there, I highly recommend it. A lot of people during the weekend were commenting on how technical the track is and how little time there is to gather your thoughts. I think that is always the case with a new track. My experience was that once I got a feel for the track’s flow, there was plenty of time to plan the next series of turns and reflect on the last series. It is a finesse track in several sections that rewards maximizing corner entry speeds and patience on the throttle but, for me anyway, it is the perfect track that allows a driver to do some of that “driver stuff.”
Thanks again,
Hank
04-29-2003, 01:17 AM
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Hank,
It's great to hear you enjoyed yourself at Barber. You are well ahead of the game, learning the track so well in one weekend.
The track is a real challenge, which is great, just that many more places to improve your inputs whether you are an intermediate or expert driver.
It's great to hear you enjoyed yourself at Barber. You are well ahead of the game, learning the track so well in one weekend.
The track is a real challenge, which is great, just that many more places to improve your inputs whether you are an intermediate or expert driver.
04-29-2003, 10:55 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Buck:
<strong>Hank, I wish I knew you were going to be there. I would have made sure you an Tom hooked up. He bought Corey's RSR. I went to Charleston with him to pick it up. He says it's awesome and can barely control himself when he stats talking about it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Buck, am I reading between the lines enough to see that someone finally bought the last air cooled 911 to race in the Daytona 24 hours? That RSR converted car Gordon at Autometrics did?
E. J.
<strong>Hank, I wish I knew you were going to be there. I would have made sure you an Tom hooked up. He bought Corey's RSR. I went to Charleston with him to pick it up. He says it's awesome and can barely control himself when he stats talking about it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Buck, am I reading between the lines enough to see that someone finally bought the last air cooled 911 to race in the Daytona 24 hours? That RSR converted car Gordon at Autometrics did?
E. J.
04-29-2003, 11:28 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by DJF1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well a bit of both really. On the sprint races over the 20 min mark the box would get really mussy and I could not find a gear anymore. Then literally 5 minutes later after the car was parked the box returned to normal shifting. We took out all the box related underside trays and it helped with cooling. Since my race was a day before I had to go to work I do not know yet the results of the investigation by my mechanic, we suspected a lot of things, one of them to install an oil cooler. I only managed to finish one race ( the last one of the day ) and I made a point to shift less, but that should not really be the way the box should be used.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">DJ,
Something is amiss. I have never had any issue with my gearbox and it does not have an oil cooler. Did you have your gearbox re-built? If so it is most likely something small. Email me is you need the name of my shop, he helped Glen's mechanic diagnosis a couple small glitches he had with his tranny.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>FWIW you don't need an oil cooler on the tranny or was that an inside joke that flew over my head...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">well a bit of both really. On the sprint races over the 20 min mark the box would get really mussy and I could not find a gear anymore. Then literally 5 minutes later after the car was parked the box returned to normal shifting. We took out all the box related underside trays and it helped with cooling. Since my race was a day before I had to go to work I do not know yet the results of the investigation by my mechanic, we suspected a lot of things, one of them to install an oil cooler. I only managed to finish one race ( the last one of the day ) and I made a point to shift less, but that should not really be the way the box should be used.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">DJ,
Something is amiss. I have never had any issue with my gearbox and it does not have an oil cooler. Did you have your gearbox re-built? If so it is most likely something small. Email me is you need the name of my shop, he helped Glen's mechanic diagnosis a couple small glitches he had with his tranny.
04-29-2003, 06:44 PM
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Thanks Greg, my mechanic (Mike Callas) will open the box and check it out. He too thought this is not normal and I never had any trouble with my gearbox before. Before the race he only had time to open partially the box and install a Porsche factory new LSD, the one that came out of the gearbox had broken teeth which was not a good sign so we were already concern about the overall quality of the box.
If I get stuck on the wall I will send you an email.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
If I get stuck on the wall I will send you an email.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />