Air Cooled Prices Through the Roof - Panorama
#121
How many 993s were used on track when new/2/5/20 years old. I can count on just over my fingers and toes the number used in Club Racing when I was running RSA #1. Nationally.
Now, switch to DE cars. Not (mostly incorrectly) warmed over street cars that get run in the lower 4/5 of events 3 times in 5 years. In the wheelhouse of use, maybe 100? We've got about 10 here, presently, right?
#122
As far as convertibles go, one thing they have over the coupes is the fact that the 993 cab was the last good looking 911 convertible -- by far. So if you are into looks and want a cab, you'll definitely gravitate to the 993.
I really don't think the lines on the cab are that different from the coupe... my personal opinion only. I do notice the side window absence which detracts a little.
My car has the M030 anti-roll bars, M030 springs, Biltstein HD shocks, and a Schnell strut brace and I'd be willing to bet it is subjectively just as stiff as any coupe out there. I don't think you really give up anything drivablility-wise with the cab.
I really don't think the lines on the cab are that different from the coupe... my personal opinion only. I do notice the side window absence which detracts a little.
My car has the M030 anti-roll bars, M030 springs, Biltstein HD shocks, and a Schnell strut brace and I'd be willing to bet it is subjectively just as stiff as any coupe out there. I don't think you really give up anything drivablility-wise with the cab.
#123
Maybe it's a US thing, but here in Europe, the classic shape of the coupe seems to be the enthusiasts choice, reflected in higher values.
The rare air cooled models seem to be leading the charge, especially RS variants. There are a couple of nice RS 2.7 M471 lwt for sale, we really are not far off a $2 million (equivalent) asking price for these. Maybe this filters down through the ranks of desirable air cooled 911 ?
The rare air cooled models seem to be leading the charge, especially RS variants. There are a couple of nice RS 2.7 M471 lwt for sale, we really are not far off a $2 million (equivalent) asking price for these. Maybe this filters down through the ranks of desirable air cooled 911 ?
#124
#125
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2008
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From: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
Seriously though, you are right in saying as such because we see very little in the lines of 993 cabs or coupes for sale...
Average 1995 coupes are moving in the 35k range and 1995 cabs are asking the same.
We see alot of coupes for high dollars but they are S models... Rarely do we see a cab for "S" money therefore it is easy to mistakenly say cabs are not selling for as much as coupes...
Now, I know alot dealers rather coupes in their inventory when it comes to 964 and 993 models because the iconic 911 coupe shape sells well.
Because coupes have been selling for alot more money nowadays i have tried looking for cabs as an affordable 993 alternative but no such luck... no cheap cabs out there... they are asking par with coupes for the most part.... now, if they are actually selling i do not know..
#126
Because coupes have been selling for alot more money nowadays i have tried looking for cabs as an affordable 993 alternative but no such luck... no cheap cabs out there... they are asking par with coupes for the most part.... now, if they are actually selling i do not know..
This time of year (spring/summer) cabs are always more popular and on the expensive side. Wait till November... comparable coupes will be at least $5K more.
This may not be true in southern regions (FL, TX, CA) but has always been the case here in the northeast.
#127
Here is another good article on the increasing value of air-cooled cars ...
Why air-cooled 911s continue to skyrocket, and the best Porsches to ****** while they're still cheap
By Marco R. della Cava Motoramic https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...182212849.html
.
1986 Porsche 930 Turbo
Porsche’s now-iconic 911 will be one of the star models at a variety of auctions unfolding during Pebble Beach’s annual Concours d’Elegance week, Aug. 13-17. A glance at Mecum’s catalog alone reveals glossy photos of candy-colored gems from the early ‘70s, including two Carrera RS Tourings and a few late ‘70s 935 IMSA standouts. Expect the bidding to be fierce and healthy six-figures high, reflecting this air-cooled car’s growing status as a must-have collectible.
“These cars have been undervalued for decades,” says Bruce Canepa, an ex-Porsche racer whose eponymous restoration and sales shop in Scotts Valley, Calif., traffics heavily in pristine air-cooled Porsches. “Even a few years back, you'd show up with a 911 race car at auctions and things might take a bit to heat up. But now it’s Katie-bar-the door time.” Canepa has a few explanations for the uptick in 911 values, which extend even to the latest air-cooled iteration of the model, the 1995-1998 993. “Many of them were driven hard and used up, so now if you see one that has modest miles, it’s worth quite a bit,” he says, noting that rarer models such as 993 Turbos, early ‘90s RS Americas and now-legendary late ‘60s 911S are particularly sought after by collectors.
“I recently sold an RS America for $145,000,” says Canepa, astonishment seeping into his voice. No kidding, considering that the same car could have been snapped up a decade back for considerably less than half that amount. “What’s the appeal? Well, Ferraris still live on another planet. But I like to say that 911s are still the best driving real sports cars on the planet.”
Longtime Porsche magazine editor and enthusiast Pete Stout recently declared himself “astonished” at the creep in 911 prices, pointing out not just how early 911s - which leaped to life out of Porsche’s groundbreaking 356 in 1964 - with the right pedigree have gone up tenfold in value in recent years, but specifically how a 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 fetched $1.4 million at Gooding & Company’s Amelia Island auction this year.
“Are these 911s worth more than a million dollars?” Stout wrote in his editor’s note in the May issue of Panorama, the magazine of the Porsche Club of America. “Is this the sign of a bubble about to burst? While the early 911 market feels like a bubble to me, it has felt like one for years. Yet prices keep climbing.”Stout goes on to say that he is “shocked by 911 and 964 Speedsters priced at $200,000, (and) clean 930 Turbos selling for $35,000 to $50,000 a year or two ago are moving toward and exceeding six figures.”
Keith Martin, longtime publisher of Portland, Ore.-based Sports Car Market newsletter, counsels collectors with a yen and wallet for an early air-cooled car to “skip the early S model, and look for a 911 (E or T) from 1969 to 1973, which will be half the price (of a $200,000 S) but offer 95% of the driving pleasure.” Martin is particularly keen on the early and mid-’80s 911 SC, which represented Porsche “becoming a real car; they were comfortable, lasted forever and can still be had for $20,000 to $35,000. After that, the 911 started getting very complicated, with all-wheel-drive and turbos. Those are magnificent cars, but what they can do completely outstrips what you can do with them on the street.”
Martin’s view of the continuing air-cooled 911 frenzy is that “it is good for the marque, because more people will restore these cars, so there will be more mechanics dedicated to them and more parts. But it’ll be bad for most enthusiasts, because they just won't be able to afford many of the cars the way they used to.” Canepa echoes that dual sentiment. “I think it’s great these cars are being appreciated,” he says, pausing. “But, honestly, some days I wish it wasn't happening. They're amazing cars, and I'd hate to see them just turn into show queens.” Editor Stout laments the possibility that “fewer (911s) will be exercised as intended, and many will disappear into collections.”
Ultimately, Stout’s advice for admirers of the marque is to take a harder look at the company’s more recent water-cooled models, which can offer plenty of fun without the now-exclusive pricing of air-cooled 911s. “Early Boxsters go for as little as $8,000,” he says. “As early 911 prices continue to rise, Porsche’s water-cooled sports cars look even better than ever.”
By Marco R. della Cava Motoramic https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...182212849.html
.
1986 Porsche 930 Turbo
Porsche’s now-iconic 911 will be one of the star models at a variety of auctions unfolding during Pebble Beach’s annual Concours d’Elegance week, Aug. 13-17. A glance at Mecum’s catalog alone reveals glossy photos of candy-colored gems from the early ‘70s, including two Carrera RS Tourings and a few late ‘70s 935 IMSA standouts. Expect the bidding to be fierce and healthy six-figures high, reflecting this air-cooled car’s growing status as a must-have collectible.
“These cars have been undervalued for decades,” says Bruce Canepa, an ex-Porsche racer whose eponymous restoration and sales shop in Scotts Valley, Calif., traffics heavily in pristine air-cooled Porsches. “Even a few years back, you'd show up with a 911 race car at auctions and things might take a bit to heat up. But now it’s Katie-bar-the door time.” Canepa has a few explanations for the uptick in 911 values, which extend even to the latest air-cooled iteration of the model, the 1995-1998 993. “Many of them were driven hard and used up, so now if you see one that has modest miles, it’s worth quite a bit,” he says, noting that rarer models such as 993 Turbos, early ‘90s RS Americas and now-legendary late ‘60s 911S are particularly sought after by collectors.
“I recently sold an RS America for $145,000,” says Canepa, astonishment seeping into his voice. No kidding, considering that the same car could have been snapped up a decade back for considerably less than half that amount. “What’s the appeal? Well, Ferraris still live on another planet. But I like to say that 911s are still the best driving real sports cars on the planet.”
Longtime Porsche magazine editor and enthusiast Pete Stout recently declared himself “astonished” at the creep in 911 prices, pointing out not just how early 911s - which leaped to life out of Porsche’s groundbreaking 356 in 1964 - with the right pedigree have gone up tenfold in value in recent years, but specifically how a 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 fetched $1.4 million at Gooding & Company’s Amelia Island auction this year.
“Are these 911s worth more than a million dollars?” Stout wrote in his editor’s note in the May issue of Panorama, the magazine of the Porsche Club of America. “Is this the sign of a bubble about to burst? While the early 911 market feels like a bubble to me, it has felt like one for years. Yet prices keep climbing.”Stout goes on to say that he is “shocked by 911 and 964 Speedsters priced at $200,000, (and) clean 930 Turbos selling for $35,000 to $50,000 a year or two ago are moving toward and exceeding six figures.”
Keith Martin, longtime publisher of Portland, Ore.-based Sports Car Market newsletter, counsels collectors with a yen and wallet for an early air-cooled car to “skip the early S model, and look for a 911 (E or T) from 1969 to 1973, which will be half the price (of a $200,000 S) but offer 95% of the driving pleasure.” Martin is particularly keen on the early and mid-’80s 911 SC, which represented Porsche “becoming a real car; they were comfortable, lasted forever and can still be had for $20,000 to $35,000. After that, the 911 started getting very complicated, with all-wheel-drive and turbos. Those are magnificent cars, but what they can do completely outstrips what you can do with them on the street.”
Martin’s view of the continuing air-cooled 911 frenzy is that “it is good for the marque, because more people will restore these cars, so there will be more mechanics dedicated to them and more parts. But it’ll be bad for most enthusiasts, because they just won't be able to afford many of the cars the way they used to.” Canepa echoes that dual sentiment. “I think it’s great these cars are being appreciated,” he says, pausing. “But, honestly, some days I wish it wasn't happening. They're amazing cars, and I'd hate to see them just turn into show queens.” Editor Stout laments the possibility that “fewer (911s) will be exercised as intended, and many will disappear into collections.”
Ultimately, Stout’s advice for admirers of the marque is to take a harder look at the company’s more recent water-cooled models, which can offer plenty of fun without the now-exclusive pricing of air-cooled 911s. “Early Boxsters go for as little as $8,000,” he says. “As early 911 prices continue to rise, Porsche’s water-cooled sports cars look even better than ever.”
Last edited by FlatSix911; 12-27-2014 at 12:48 AM.
#129
Fuelist Valuations
Thanks for the site. I now use this tool for valuations; nothing beats actual sales data--asking prices are meaningless.
Great source of pricing information! http://www.thefuelist.com/
#130
#131
Mostly ebay sales data valuations though...
BTW, I noticed if you click on the sales data point you see the photo and details of the car that sold.
Most of the data has been gathered through ebay auctions.
I'm guessing valuations through ebay sales prices will bias the values lower than through sales prices gathered through rennlist, PCA Pano, or Pelican?
Most of the data has been gathered through ebay auctions.
I'm guessing valuations through ebay sales prices will bias the values lower than through sales prices gathered through rennlist, PCA Pano, or Pelican?
#132
Correct me if not correct, but do not many ebay cars end without a sale and are no longer posted or re-listed which suggests to me the owner or dealer did not take the ebay bid but sold the car for more money....
#133
That was my case when I sold my '88 Carrera DE car through a PCA Pano Mart Ad
That was my case when I listed my '88 Carrera DE car on ebay in November 2012. I had a few bites on ebay, but sold my car through a PCA Pano Mart ad within 1 week of advertising it. The buyer (also a PCA member) bought my car as listed in the Pano online ad for more money that I'd listed it on ebay.
#134
Not necessarily...Many list cars on ebay simply for the national exposure, and the relatively low advertising price...Simply put in an unrealistic reserve or buy it now price. If someone ponies up to the plate on the price, where's the downside?
#135
I am convinced that lots of dealers use ebay as an advertising medium and don't care whether or not a particular vehicle sells on eBay or not.