Rick Lee

I know some will call me a heretic. And I do think cross-drilled rotors look the coolest. But I have my first DE coming up, am in mild need of new front brakes and do not want to worry about cracking my rotors - neither during this DE nor in the future. I have looked in a lot of catalogues and have never seen slotted rotors for 993's. Are they out there? Thanks.

Greg Fishman

Sure you can get some rotors made that are slotted. You will pay a lot more for them though as they will be a custom job. The stock rotors work fine, no need to reinvent the wheel. I use them on my race car and have never had a problem.

STLPCA

Rick
If this is your first DE (not just the first in this car), stop worrying about wheels, brakes, etc. The limits of your car with street tires & oem pads & rotors (assuming all are in good condition) will be so far beyond your personal limits that you'll finish the weekend in awe of your "racecar."

In short, listen to Greg's advice - he's da (really fast) man!

Rick Lee

I'm not worried about this being my first DE. I'm worried about running out of brakes halfway through the first day and/or transferring enough heat to my lines to boil my fluid. My brakes are fine for street driving a while longer, but I'm not sure they'll pass tech for a two-day DE. I am a tech inspector and I'd rather err on the side of caution. Besides, I can't go a whole month without doing some DIY job on my car.

Greg Fishman

No need to worry. Just change the brake fluid and make sure you have at least 50% pad left and you will be fine. If your rotors are within spec and don't have large cracks touching each other, they will be fine.

Take your brake bleeding stuff with you just in case but I doubt you will need it. I used to be able to go several events before a bleed was neccesary before I started racing. During a race weekend I bleed before I go and once during the weekend, not 100% neccesary but it is good insurance.

Mark in Baltimore

Rick-

Are you planning on going to Summit Point? From what I've been told by other instructors and from what I experienced, the track is very tough on brakes. I just came back from my first weekend at Summit in some rather hot weather and, on the first day, boiled my somewhat old, stock brake fluid on the shorter, Jefferson course. Some helpful PCA'ers helped me flush my system and replaced the old stuff with ATE Blue. Brakes felt good the rest of the weekend, although I experienced a bit of sponginess coming into Turn 1 off of the main straight after five hot laps. This was the first weekend that I had ever had brake difficulties with my newly installed, stock, Textar pads

I've only run twice at Mid Ohio (cool weather) and Putnam (super hot) but either those courses are easier on brakes or I'm braking more deeply or more than I should at Summit. My average laps at Summit were 1' 34" with one aberrant lap at 1' 33", but I know I'm braking way too much down the chute. Can't help it right now.

I know race pads will help insulate the fluid from heat so that will be my next braking upgrade. Also, I've heard VIR is very fast; can anyone say whether it's hard on brakes, too? Greg?

Greg Fishman

Mark,
VIR is not the toughest track on brakes I have been to but it is not the place to have any problems what so ever as it is very fast. Benefit of VIR (full course) is that you have plenty of time to get some cool air to the brakes while motoring down the straights. In my car I am going about 140-145 in two spots and have to slow to around 60-70. In a student's Viper with 500rwhp I drove it on a 7/10ths lap and hit close to 165, when I rode with him and he was pushing we were well over 170mph. Fastest I have ever been, or would want to go as a passenger. I digress...


Tracks like Gingerman where the speeds aren't very high and there are lots of brake points tend to cause more problems in my experience. If this describes Summit Point then that might be the issue, or more likely you are pushing more and getting faster and are carrying more speed into the brake zones. You may need to look at cooling ducts and better brake pads.

Rick Lee

I should add that I have the cooling ducts in my bumper and yes, I will be going to Summit Point. I changed my brake fluid from ATE Gold to Blue one month ago. I keep very on top of my maint. and do not like to let things slide. I would absolutely freak if I lost my brakes on the track because I wanted to squeeze the last bit of life out of the old pads and rotors.

Mark in Baltimore

Greg- Wow. I'm not sure whether I'm more impressed by that incredible speed or that you were just along for the ride.

Greg Fishman

Rick, did you connect some hose from the ducts in the front bumper through the fender liner? If not they really won't do much except pump so air to your oil cooler.

I agree being prudent about brakes is smart, they are much cheaper than body parts (auto and human).

Greg Fishman

Sometimes stupidity reigns supreme! I didn't ride (instruct) with him more than a couple sessions. Way too fast if something goes wrong. And unfortunately for him it did, not at VIR but at Kershaw, SC. He lost his brakes on the front straight and went so far off track he ended up upside down in the trees. The video of the accident (in-car) was passed around the internet for a while. Luckily he and his instructor were OK, the car was a write off.

After this happened I really backed down my instructing and riding in cars like that. I felt like I doged a bullet. The Viper guy was a good driver but someone screwed up his car and if the problem had occured at the back straight at VIR at 165+mph, who knows what could have happened. I have a family to raise and haven't earned much money (actually none, lol) instructing so the risk isn't worth it to me.

George from MD

If you have done as Greg described (and it sounds like you have) you will find your brakes work better than you ever could have imagined.

If this is your first DE you will (God willing and in all likelihood) be breaking too early and too hard. Summit is not, IMO, hard on brakes but hard on tires due to the variations in surfacing and rough portions. Only in turns 1 and 5 at Summit will you really be hard on the brakes and as a first time DE'r you will not have reached the speeds that would allow you to really stress them (unless you're related to Montoya or Schumacher).

You will love it- it is a wonderful track and I look forward to seeing you there. I also have 96 C2 in midnight blue metallic so maybe we can compare notes.

Rick Lee

George, did I see you at the Autotherapy tech session? If so, your car rocks. That's when I last flushed my brakes (and clutch slave) and my avatar photo was taken then too. There's a 10% chance I'll use my Carrera for the DE, but I'm pretty sure it'll be the 993. Life is full of choices.

Benton

George,
Random question, but do you have any bigger pics of your ride? What kind of wheels are those? They look interesting although they could be standard twists for all I know from looking at the small avatar.

George from MD

Rick, Yes that was me. I remember you had the "pretty" car- no "dropped the jack handle" dings, bumper rash, rock chips, tire detritus, etc. It was disgusting.

(just kidding, of course). Mine will go in the shop Monday for a Euro bumper, tech art cooling kit and stone guard treatment so it should look a little bit prettier.

If you haven't DE'd yet you're gonna be amazed at the things your car can do. And what you'll be able to do with it given a little time.

993 the wheels on my car are Fikse FM5's. (I have FM10's too but they are much harder to clean of course). I would post a picture but don't really have a side view that would show them- and I'm not sure how to post one anyway.