Cupcar

Frankly, nothing beats doing your own "PPI" and talking to the one who maintained the car and have them show you the car up on a lift and go over the paint, glass and seals looking for repair work. Even if you don't know much about what you are looking at, being there drives others to honesty. Also, a question like "WTF is all this oil here" should come to even the least mechanically oriented observer.

When I bought my 993 I flew to the seller and looked at the car where I found it clearly misrepresented in my opinion. Brake discs shot, repainted surfaces, engine leaks, loose shifter lever, signs that the odometer was turned back, etc. but I bought it anyway because, since the rest was going to be replaced anyway, all I wanted was a white, rust free chassis with ABD.

911Dave

I'll post it if I can. I was not involved at all in the process. I don't even know what my uncle got from JDP as far as documentation but I'll ask.

JDHertz11

The interesting part about this and many stories like it are that dealers seem to always get the finger pointed at them more than independents. Ive had great PPI results with dealers and horrible ones at independents. This also reinforces the fact that EVERY car will need some sort of work done to it upon purchase (despite what others here say). My 2013 Lexus with 2K miles on it can really use a tire balance since the day I drove it off the lot, and I take care of my $hit...

First off, no one really cares about anything anymore. Do you really believe that for $350 someone is going to take the time to research the history (even in their own records)?, paint meter the entire car, run a leak down test, pull the wheels, check the wheels for straightness, look for oil leaks, plug in and read codes?

I'm extremely realistic about most things in life and PPI's are definetely one of them. You need to go look at things yourself, in person to really know what you are looking at.

"The owner didn't know where the battery was located"... do you think that most Porsche guys know anything about their car cars these days? The 356, 911, 964, 993 days are over guys, wake up...

Cupcar

Can I quote you on that?

Hey, I just did!!!

911Dave

I agree completely. I'll never buy a car long distance again without seeing it in person first.

Unfortunately, this wasn't possible for my uncle. He knows very little about 911s anyway so he needed someone else to look it over.

He's a very smart guy, business owner, very successful. Just inexperienced with Porsches and too trustful of others. I'm not even sure he's ever bought a used car before.

911Dave

I think that anyone who is a PCA member, and who owns an air cooled car for 13 years, and who claims to have maintained it meticulously, ought to know where the F'ing battery is located.

goofballdeluxe

^^^ This.

Personally, since you have paperwork from JDP saying at the PPI the car was fine, I think this presents you a golden opportunity.

I'd have another comprehensive inspection done by another shop, preferably another Porsche dealership so legitimacy could not be questioned, including leakdown and compression tests. Whatever comes up, and I mean whatever, should be JDP's liability to make right, up to and including a complete top-end rebuild to replace the worn valve guides, etc., if these new inspection results warrant it, since JDP said the car was fine and it was sold to your uncle because of their false assessment.

That bill could be easily into the many many thousands.

If JDP balks at cutting you a check for any/all the repair work needed (which they will), since you have in writing from them that the car was fine during the PPI, I'd lawyer up or consider at least small claims court, which here in CA, is max $7500 judgement I think.

I'd imagine you'd have a great chance at winning in court and getting the car back in pristine operating condition at no cost your you/your uncle.

Best of luck

Mark in Baltimore

A RennFax by a persnickety, eagle-eyed 'lister could have saved your uncle a lot of time, money and hassle. Hope it gets resolved.

Quadcammer

not gonna happen. Just about any PPI report/invoice I've ever seen says that they are not responsible for any missing, inaccurate, or incomplete information.

The few remaining shops that do PPIs have tended to limit their liability in this way.

goofballdeluxe

You may be right.

Thing is, small claims court, for example, costs next to nothing to file. A sympathetic judge may see that given how extensive the work needed is, and the fact that JDP appears to not even have looked at the car and done a PPI, may find that grossly negligent/fraudulent behavior and issue a judgement against JDP anyway.

It would be worth a shot and a $7500 judgement is nothing to sneeze at...

ca993twin

It sounds like JDP never even took the engine undertray off to inspect the underside of the engine. Or are we to assume that the engine tray was clean at the time of the sale and that the oil dripped in during the transport? I find this to be the most blatant evidence that the car was not inspected at all.

Magdaddy

I would think that regardless of what/if any disclaimer the PPI has on it from them...according to their own past service records on the car...they knew it had "significant" mechanical issues.

Gotta believe that any small claims court would see this as willful mis-representation of the vehicle, by a dealer who maintained the car.

CamsPorsche

LOL it doesn't matter if my car was "originally" sold by JDP and serviced by them...a PPI still uncovers items on a car that should be fixed. I'm sure there are dealers out there, again just like any other non-car related business that will do as little as possible.

The one glaring difference is that I had a great PPI and others have stated they too love the service JDP offers.

One bad experience does not paint a dealership as the worst.

I had a friend buy his 997 from Champion Porsche (world's largest Porsche dealer I believe) of what was a CPO'd car that was immaculate. Seems that same car was involved in a lovely frontal crash that never appeared on Carfax etc....yet others exude/gush/love Champion Porsche.

Get of your high horse and realize that ALL business are never perfect.

goofballdeluxe

Exactly.

Any legal disclaimer that JDP has on their PPI would not protect them from a legal judgement against them for any act of negligence, willful misrepresentation or fraud.

I think this would be an easy case to win in court, especially since JDP were foolish enough to turn over their own paperwork saying the car was fine

RonCT

Couple of thoughts. Do not assume that an enthusiast knows where the battery is. I know several that love the whole car thing, belong to clubs, go on "coffee runs" and have no idea how to take care of a car, or where to even hook up the battery if they need a jump start. That's what we have dealers for - you bring the car in every fall or spring for an annual, and spend your time driving, not spinning wrenches. Different strokes.

Next is the PPI. JD and the owner had an obligation to share with you the results of the service 4 months prior and I wouldn't let either off the hook. Look into the laws of PA and I bet there are representation statutes regarding used cars. I'll bet you have a serious / legitimate case and that could involve serious fraud charges. JD knew about the issue, notified the client, client declined, and hushed up. Why JD failed to provide the service history is questionable - last time I bought a used Porsche the dealership pulled all Porsche service data and provided it.

I would not let them off the hook and I wouldn't do any more work until you have their assurance that they will cover it. I would suggest that JD is only liable to the $350 paid, but the previous owner is liable for the balance of the repair. They priced, represented, and sold the car in "perfect" condition, but knew otherwise. So if it costs $3,000 to bring it up to that level, then they will eat the repair cost and should be happy it isn't worst.

I would get a complete repair proposal from the local shop to bring it into the condition represented. You can even give them the PPI / sales info from the previous owner and ask them to do propose what it would take to get it into that condition. If it's $3,000, then I would send that forward to PO, JD, and CC your attorney. Make the demand that JD / PO (combined) remedy the damages your uncle sustained. Most states include in their statute things like treble damages, where if it was $3,000 then your uncle would be entitled to $9,000 as a disincentive for people to misrepresent used cars. Easy enough to research on the web.