OT: Porsche to replace ALL engines in 991 GT3 cars...
03-19-2014, 07:57 PM
#31
Race Car
Well not so bizarre... Think about what happens when you loose a rod bolt. The rod caps become loose, the rod becomes loose and starts flailing around inside the case, the clearance between the rods and the case at the bottom of the stroke is pretty tight, as soon as the rod loosens off there is contact between the rod and the case and shazam gouging, split case etc...
If the engine that is removed is torn down and found not to have an issue with the rod bolts or what ever then there is no reason the case cannot be used for rebuild engines. Porsche and Other manufacturers do this all the time, that is what a core exchange program is about, they get the old engine/transmission back rebuild it with new internals and sell to the next guy.
All the sinister thoughts about this are pretty crazy in my mind.
Might be a tad early to say they will be fine...the GT3 owners are still waiting on the details (engine to be replaced but when? guys already signed up for track series now without a car and out of pocket, now you have a new car with a replacement engine and how does that play out at resale, rumor is Porsche may try to recycle the current engines back into other GT3s to be produced
)
)All the sinister thoughts about this are pretty crazy in my mind.
03-20-2014, 12:56 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
I'm hoping to buy a 997.1 RS.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
see my thread on the 997 GT3 board.....................
"dam" you porsche and GT3 issues"
or not
sigh.
03-20-2014, 09:24 AM
#34
Race Director
credit?
I give them no credit. How does a company like porsche, which goes to great lengths to tell us how they are an engineering company first and how they test and racing and blah blah blah, screw up something like a connecting rod cap/bolt?
I'm sure they'll get the fix right (or maybe not), but giving them credit for replacing engines when they screwed up something so elementary is silly.
I'm interested to see what, if any, other compensation they give to owners.
I give them no credit. How does a company like porsche, which goes to great lengths to tell us how they are an engineering company first and how they test and racing and blah blah blah, screw up something like a connecting rod cap/bolt?
I'm sure they'll get the fix right (or maybe not), but giving them credit for replacing engines when they screwed up something so elementary is silly.
I'm interested to see what, if any, other compensation they give to owners.
03-20-2014, 10:21 AM
#35
Team Owner
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well stated. why I used bizarre.... especially with many years down the road w/ the GT3s faring well.
much thanks. now the fires are much easier to fathom.... added to the huge external pump and high capacity.
Well not so bizarre... Think about what happens when you loose a rod bolt. The rod caps become loose, the rod becomes loose and starts flailing around inside the case, the clearance between the rods and the case at the bottom of the stroke is pretty tight, as soon as the rod loosens off there is contact between the rod and the case and shazam gouging, split case etc...
If the engine that is removed is torn down and found not to have an issue with the rod bolts or what ever then there is no reason the case cannot be used for rebuild engines. Porsche and Other manufacturers do this all the time, that is what a core exchange program is about, they get the old engine/transmission back rebuild it with new internals and sell to the next guy.
All the sinister thoughts about this are pretty crazy in my mind.
If the engine that is removed is torn down and found not to have an issue with the rod bolts or what ever then there is no reason the case cannot be used for rebuild engines. Porsche and Other manufacturers do this all the time, that is what a core exchange program is about, they get the old engine/transmission back rebuild it with new internals and sell to the next guy.
All the sinister thoughts about this are pretty crazy in my mind.
much thanks. now the fires are much easier to fathom.... added to the huge external pump and high capacity.
03-20-2014, 12:28 PM
#37
credit?
I give them no credit. How does a company like porsche, which goes to great lengths to tell us how they are an engineering company first and how they test and racing and blah blah blah, screw up something like a connecting rod cap/bolt?
I'm sure they'll get the fix right (or maybe not), but giving them credit for replacing engines when they screwed up something so elementary is silly.
I'm interested to see what, if any, other compensation they give to owners.
I give them no credit. How does a company like porsche, which goes to great lengths to tell us how they are an engineering company first and how they test and racing and blah blah blah, screw up something like a connecting rod cap/bolt?
I'm sure they'll get the fix right (or maybe not), but giving them credit for replacing engines when they screwed up something so elementary is silly.
I'm interested to see what, if any, other compensation they give to owners.
On the other hand I can't help wondering if the potential for fire is what drove the decision. The there's plenty of 996 owners with a rod sticking out of their engines who were sh$t out of luck. At any rate, at least they did the right thing here.
03-20-2014, 12:38 PM
#38
Porsche has a pretty remarkable track record of almost every engine in the 911 series having a major defect.
2.7's -- pulled studs, overheating
3.2 and 3.6 -- premature valve guide wear, cylinder-to-head leakage (early 964's)
996, 997 -- take your pick of acronyms that describe a grenaded engine
2.7's -- pulled studs, overheating
3.2 and 3.6 -- premature valve guide wear, cylinder-to-head leakage (early 964's)
996, 997 -- take your pick of acronyms that describe a grenaded engine
03-20-2014, 12:43 PM
#39
Race Director
Can you name one auto manufacturer - just one - that hasn't F'ed up a design? It happens. In this case theyve copped to it and taken responsibility. I can think of a lot of other instances where that doesn't happen. That's why they get credit.
On the other hand I can't help wondering if the potential for fire is what drove the decision. The there's plenty of 996 owners with a rod sticking out of their engines who were sh$t out of luck. At any rate, at least they did the right thing here.
On the other hand I can't help wondering if the potential for fire is what drove the decision. The there's plenty of 996 owners with a rod sticking out of their engines who were sh$t out of luck. At any rate, at least they did the right thing here.
Given porsche's rhetoric about testing products with racing (they haven't with this engine) and that they are such a renowned engineering firm, I am concerned that they can't keep the rod on the crank with this motor. Ti rods are not anything new here. Having to tie wrap a fuel line is one thing...having con rods exit blocks is another.
The potential for fire was the major driver here, imho.
as noted by NP and yourself, porsche engines are hardly as robust as their reputation would have them seem.
03-20-2014, 12:48 PM
#40
Banned
If the engine that is removed is torn down and found not to have an issue with the rod bolts or what ever then there is no reason the case cannot be used for rebuild engines. Porsche and Other manufacturers do this all the time, that is what a core exchange program is about, they get the old engine/transmission back rebuild it with new internals and sell to the next guy.
All the sinister thoughts about this are pretty crazy in my mind.
03-20-2014, 12:56 PM
#41
I truly believe the potential for disaster was greater than the actual risk, however in this litigious age the company had to do something drastic in order to placate customers.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.
03-21-2014, 12:05 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Might be a tad early to say they will be fine...the GT3 owners are still waiting on the details (engine to be replaced but when? guys already signed up for track series now without a car and out of pocket, now you have a new car with a replacement engine and how does that play out at resale, rumor is Porsche may try to recycle the current engines back into other GT3s to be produced)
)I am left wondering how current GT3 owners will (or will not be) compensated
It is good that Porsche is stepping up
And I'd bet they would have done the same if they had caught the M96 IMS issue early enough in production
Obviously for risk mitigation reasons
For new GT3 owners...
Heck of a lot of $$$ outlay
+ Lost time with the car
= loss by owner
Time value of money...
03-21-2014, 12:49 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
I truly believe the potential for disaster was greater than the actual risk, however in this litigious age the company had to do something drastic in order to placate customers.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.
03-21-2014, 12:51 AM
#45
I truly believe the potential for disaster was greater than the actual risk, however in this litigious age the company had to do something drastic in order to placate customers.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.
Replacing all 785 GT3's will cost Porsche $102M+, but might wind up cheaper than having to fight customers in court which would also be a PR lose-lose for the company.