KaiB

Loren...please go crawl back beneath your rock.

redlightrich

I am appreciating all this input, and I am learning. Yes, some of you caught it, I want as much torque as I can find, but not if it makes the motor run out of breath at 5000 rpm.

Sorry guys, I can not accept that a tip can't have any more power. I do clearly understand the parasitic loss of a converter, but that is a constant. It will not increase with higher power. I have built many automatic trans cars, and they reacted just fine.

I may have to up the ante, but 3 ideas were interesting to me
9 Meister 3.6 +2 ( even though I dont know what this is, I liked the numbers. It seems to have a varioram.

I like the idea of cam and mechanical lifters, and appropriate pistons, with a possible reflash.

Supercharger would be very fun, and probably easy too, but will the motor hold up if one of the masters supplies a tune?

Just so you understand, I do not continually flog my cars mercilessly, but when I put my foot down, I want it to react ( at least better than my test drives did). Fuel consumption is not really a consideration, unless it becomes terrible . I don't mind the cost as much as stopping often to fuel up.

It boils down to a difficult choice for me, if I want the car to be my DD, it must be a tip. I already have weekend type limited use vehicles.

I do really appreciate everyone's input.

Regards

Rich

race911

Thing is, you're asking a question that's been answered exhaustively pretty much since the first one rolled off the line nearly 50 years ago. There's no quick and cheap. Want to spend as much again as the car cost you? Sure. I've got one of those in a car I bought. Net result was ~50HP. I get 3-4 MPH on the pull up the front straight at Thunderhill v. my stock 4S. (~75-125 pull.) And further, the faux RS has the benefit of revised gearing.

993RS

Then why not just keep the stock 6th gear? Best of both worlds...

993RS

I find that the LWF combined with Steve's gearing is the best combination and most cost effective solution. I did a 3.8 L conversion and mechanical lifters on my previous 993, it cost the heck of a lot more, and just does not compare with regearing. Subjectively,with Steve's gearset you feel you have 20% more HP, runs like a motorcylcle , and has no power holes anywhere.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Rich,

Since budget really frames any conversation about performance enhancements, its always the very FIRST question I ask of all prospective clients before the discussion. The answer to that is what dictates what is possible and what delivers the best bang-for-the-buck without compromising durability and reliability.

Its not difficult to do all this; the real trick is not creating a "grenade" nor making a car that requires fuel grades that are unavailable in your area.

bcameron59

Or you could try this...

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,..If those were throttleable, I'd do it.

Big drawback to solid-fuel rockets.

mgianzero

So according to your chart, it looks as though 2nd gear being stationary on the later G20's is not really a big deal in regards to push off the line. So is there really ever a need to find an older G20 to swap out gears 2-5 instead of the suggested 3-5? Just curious.

cgfen

ahhhhhhhhhhh and that is the primary limiting factor for me at this time.

1. Yes, i could install a hot factory turbo engine, <grrrr > but still limited by 91 octane fuel
   
2. Yes, i could install a blower on the existing engine, but still limited by 91 octane fuel.
   
3. Yes, I could build a "hot" engine and swap it in--n-out every two years for CA smog, but still limited by 91 octane fuel.

I understand that tranny re-gear has demonstrated advantages in a track focused scenario, but re-geared tranny does not provide TQ increase that many of us are looking for during occasional foot-to-the-floor moment(s) while noodling around on country roads.

I've come to the conclusion, (again), to be at one with the 993s charm and limitations pretty much as-is concerning the engine lump.

If / when I change my mind, another GT3 or a Turbo awaits.......

OK, that's the rational side of my brain.

Not so rational side <hi Steve> says I'd be willing to spend ~ 15K if;

• I could get a noticeable (seat of the pants dyno), "power" increase.
• It would pass CA smog
• It would live on 91 octane fuel.

good thread, let's keep it going.

Craig

Martin S.

local club racer has been know to say, "I'll take gears over HP anyway." He has established a name as one of the best racers in the SoCal Porsche Owners Club (POC). I think you already know where this is going.

Those of us in the never-ending search for more power and quicker throttle response, face the dilemma: Porsche's design of the 993 motor was pretty thorough. It puts out a lot of HP for a street tractable motor. In addition, the electronics on the 96 and later 993 cars are not readily modified….and if they are, there is that damn gasoline problem, anything greater than 91 octane is tough to find, unless you want to blend $10 a gallon race gas with 91 octane street gas.

So what can you do? The options discussed in this string and others have been endless. For those that want a car they can drive on the street, and a car that will pass emissions testing, options appear to be severely limited. Ring and Pinion change? Sure that will work, but it only moved the long 3rd - 6th gear problem, and spacing between gears to another part of the performance curve, it doesn't cure the problem. In addition, this is a very expensive mod for what you get, approaching the cost of a total tranny rebuild. The box needs to be cracked, and once in there, lost of places to spend money.

Porsche wasn't out to screw us over... US laws for emissions and mileage requirements, required Porsche to send us the G50/20 tranny…what if we had been given the G50/21 as they were in Europe and RoW, with the exception of a few countries? But they didn't…so what can we do?
1. LWF and RS clutch…nice, but???
2. Exhaust system? Porsche pretty much did that for us.. you can pick up HP , maybe 15? and torque, and create a nicer exhaust sound. I have a Fabspeed system and love it, X pipe, cat delete and Maxflows, great sound too. I had to take off the X pipe, reinstall the factory cat for my smog testing this past week. Noticeable difference pre and post smog inspection…my Fabspeed system is going back on next week. Note I passed smog 2 years ago with the Fabspeed 200 cell sort cars…used the stock cat this time to ensure I didn't flunk a visual inspection.
3. Take weight out of the car, not that easy and comfort is compromised,
4. Build a 3.8 motor? Expensive and the motor may not pass smog if it is equipped with all the goodies found on a 993 RS Club Sport motor
5. Sell the car and buy a Turbo or a GT3. Not for me…I love my little car, we have been together since December 1999, endured 66,000 miles together, all good I must say.
6. Gears….not cheap, the often quoted $10,000 figure, could be more if you need a clutch and LWF. But consider the application of an analogy used to sell safety equipment, such as, "How much is your life worth?" Performance wise, how much is it worth to you, to ramp up the grin factor every time you drive your car? If you have ever driven a 993 with close ratio gears, oh lawdy, the "scales will lift from your eyes!" I drove Jason's (San Diego) 993 a while back. He had a close ratio box built for him by Steve Weiner. Over the top outstanding…took me a few days to pry the grin off my face. And it was a short drive too.

I'll have a "surprise" addition to this string in a week or so. Let me hint with this, my forged shifter forks (1st/2nd & 3rd/ 4th) are on their way, along with a billet side cover for the tranny. A set of steel synchros are on the list, as well as some tasty gears, 3rd - 6th. A G50/31 (993RS) gears are a possibility too. It's all about what the wallet can stand.

Promise this will just be our little secret!

M. Schneider

+1 ,,, ^ nice read.

NP993

No need, unless you really want that taller 1st gear for some reason. I simply replaced 3, 4, and 5 in my stock /20. Sixth gear remains perfect for highway cruising, but when you want row through the gears, 2 through 5 is a nice tight stack. You also don't need steel syncros, etc, on a mostly street box. The idea that you can't have RS gears without spending $10K just isn't true. I did R&R myself, found the three new gears here on Rennlist for $1,500 (admittedly a very lucky find), and had a Porsche transmission specialist do the install, rebuild the LSD, and freshen up the box for $2,500.

If you want to build an exact replica of the RS gearbox, then yes, you will have to spend a fortune. But there is no need to do this unless you're doing heavy track work or you want bragging rights. If you just want better gearing, all you need to do is buy the RS ratio 3, 4, and 5 gears and have them installed.

Chris@Fabspeed

I can add a lot of very good info regarding aftermarket exhausts and what the gains are on internally stock 993's as most of us have.

Note, all of this testing was performed on a '95 non-varioram car that has had a top end refresh.

Below is a dyno graph comparing the car in bone stock configuration, to the car with a full Fabspeed exhaust with 200 Cell Sport Cats. As you can see, there is about 17 ft. lbs torque gained in the mid range. Peak HP is up 13 to the wheels and peak torque is up 9 ft. lbs to the wheels, so there is very decent power to be gained in the exhaust.

The problem with the 993, as far as high rpm HP is concerned, is the factory camshafts. The factory camshafts limit the affects of headers. We saw 6-7 ft. lbs mid range torque gained in our 993 header development, but little to no power up top.

There is power to be gained with Mufflers & Tips, if you remove the restriction of the factory cat section (getting rid of the factory mufflers/sealing ball insert picks up about 5-6whp with a sport cat or cat bypass section). The nice thing about our Fabspeed mufflers is we flare the muffler end so you do not use the sealing ball, even with factory tips.

Martin S.

Thanks Mike….As you can guess…I am sold on close ratio gears. Probably should have done it a long time ago…looks like I am headed down that slippery slope now.

After gears and a modern suspension (Thanks Steve Weiner!!), and the Crawford wing (Thanks Kary), and the sweet sound system (Thank Alex and Joe at Fabspeed)***, I am going to have to really concentrate on fine tuning my driving!!!!

With Fabspeed X pipe, Fabspeed 200 cell sport cats and a factory stock muffler (Needed it to pass sound at Laguna Seca (90 dB), I saw 252.4 on the dyno. Prior to this, I pulled 239. Note, I am not on the Fabspeed payroll, I just like their products and service.