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modest performance mods

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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:45 PM
  #16  
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I don't like engine mods either, that is why I went for short gearing...
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 01:14 PM
  #17  
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I think the RS flywheel and clutch made a huge improvement on throttle response and that's definitely the first thing I go after. Chip and gearing will be the next thing. They will have a bigger impact than a 20 hp bump. Engine mod is at very the bottom of my list, a few lines below buying a 997 turbo.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 02:09 PM
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I know this has been touched on before, but I didn't find much info on a search. So please don't bash me for bringing this up again.

I've had several mechanics of late mention a modified (ie. larger) plenum would also bump things up a bit on our 993's. But with RS cams, LWF and new chip, would this not help the engine "breathe" a little better? A modest gain with reasonable cost I believe. Unfortunately, I'm not even aware of who makes these any more.

I would like to know what the experts think --- I defer to Steve Weiner (Rennsport) and Collin (Ninemeister) who have years of experience with 993 motor design. I also believe Singer has spent quite a bit of time modifying all aspects of their performance engines, including intake mods.

Last edited by mgianzero; Jan 15, 2014 at 05:50 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 02:53 PM
  #19  
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redlightrich did not say what year 993, how many miles on the clock, or if he owns one now.

Anyone looking for engine/car improvements must answer the questions:
How is the car to be used.
How fast do you want to go.
How much can you spend.

If there are many miles on the car (in addition to years), you may want to rebuild the suspension with upgraded parts. A slow car can be driven faster if it handles well. A slow driver can grow to go faster if handling instills confidence.

If there are many miles (or lack of maintenance) on the engine, a rebuild would be necessary before just bolting on performance parts. A tired engine is still a tired engine no matter what.

In my case, I went with a TPC Supercharger and install ($10k), engine rebuild, LWF, heavy duty clutch, LSD rebuild, all new suspension sport bushings/bearings, rebuilt the steering rack, JRZ shocks, springs, rebuilt calipers, Frodo pads ($24k). I did all of the remove and replace myself. The engine, trans, and calipers were sent out for rebuild. Look for my thread; My 993 Rebirth Continues

This car is 'Like New', handles better than ever, and is FAST!!!!!!!

Good luck to you no matter what path you take!!!!
Main thing.... enjoy that 993!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:26 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by mgianzero
I know this has been touched on before, but I didn't find much info on a search. So please don't bash me for bringing this up again.

I've had several mechanics of late mention a plenum would also bump things up a bit on our 993's. But with RS cams, LWF and new chip, would this not help the engine "breathe" a little better? A modest gain with reasonable cost I believe. Unfortunately, I'm not even aware of who makes these any more.

I would like to know what the experts think --- I defer to Steve Weiner (Rennsport) and Collin (Ninemeister) who have years of experience with 993 motor design. I also believe Singer has spent quite a bit of time modifying all aspects of their performance engines, including intake mods.
All 993's have a plenum of some sort, even the RSR race car, not sure what these mechanics are referring to.

IF the car is a '95, then there is an improvement going to a V-Ram intake, does give a nice improvement in bottom end torque, no real bump in top end though.

Singer use a Plenum over ITB's neither cheap or easy. To go to ITB's you will also need to go for an aftermarket ECU system, this is not going to be cheap, fugure well over $12k... You will also need to do cams as well to take full advantage, look at adding another $4.... Not a cheap alternative.

Re gearing is also not cheap, $10k plus and thats just for the trans work, doesn't include R&R or the 'while you are in there bits, Clutch, flywheel etc.

I would love to see a performance comparison between a re-geared 993 with stock engine and a chipped, or chipped and cam'd 993. There is alot of anecdotal evidence out there but I am yet to see a before and after performance comparison.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:28 PM
  #21  
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I re-geared for a total of about $4,500 (did the R&R myself). Not sure where these numbers are coming from.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:40 PM
  #22  
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I'm going to offer a somewhat contrarian opinion here as a long-time owner (like many folks here) of this fine 993: expect little lasting performance ehancement from any modest/low-cost mods.

Our cars' modest HP/Tq by today's standards are what they are, rooted squarely in their era, but pale to many of today's modest offerings. But that's not bad news, IMHO; it's just a fact of life.

Best mod IMHO: Driver's Ed. Track stuff. Good instruction and track experience. Even with a stock 993 (though I'd opine that modest suspension improvements would really help you enjoy the experience), learning how to really drive/control the car is far and away more fun than a very few ponies that you'll enjoy for the moment then quickly get accustomed to and want more. No need to break the bank or mod the car to the point where you hamper its street worthiness: simple suspension mods and good track instruction and experience on that tarmac offers lasting benefits that you'll enjoy everytime you turn the wheel beyond the next stoplight.

Edward
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:42 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by trophy
Good Point Steve....

If one was to do cams in this case, could the engine then also benefit from exhaust and intake mods as well or would the stock headers and air box be sufficient with say a 993ss cam?
JMHO, but given the very modest improvement from exhaust mods, I'm inclined to leave that stuff and intakes alone unless a complete, matched suite of engine components are installed and that is not usually smog (or OBD-II) compliant. Headers do not make an appreciable difference unless one makes a major camshaft upgrade and that in turn, mandates some kind of ITB intake system.

Given that most folks are on a budget, I'd install close-ratio gears before doing major engine modifications.

RS cams and matching software does help a little.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:43 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by NP993
I re-geared for a total of about $4,500 (did the R&R myself). Not sure where these numbers are coming from.
You must have been sleeping while the dozens of rehearing threads have been going on. Everyone quotes at least $10k. Do a search.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 03:45 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by trophy
I would love to see a performance comparison between a re-geared 993 with stock engine and a chipped, or chipped and cam'd 993. There is alot of anecdotal evidence out there but I am yet to see a before and after performance comparison.
Huge difference.

A 993 with a stock engine and the proper close-ratio gears easily drives away from a stock-geared car with those engine mods. No comparison at all.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 04:25 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
Huge difference.

A 993 with a stock engine and the proper close-ratio gears easily drives away from a stock-geared car with those engine mods. No comparison at all.
Once my bank account gets over the engine rebuild, the transmission is next
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 04:40 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by trophy
Once my bank account gets over the engine rebuild, the transmission is next
You will be simply gobsmacked at the improvements,...
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 05:12 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by trophy
You must have been sleeping while the dozens of rehearing threads have been going on. Everyone quotes at least $10k. Do a search.
Do a search, and you will see my posts in those threads.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 05:23 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
Huge difference.

A 993 with a stock engine and the proper close-ratio gears easily drives away from a stock-geared car with those engine mods. No comparison at all.
I can help relay facts here.

Back when my car was "stock" DE mobile, with the major mods being a close tranny and LWF, plus a Weiner chip - I could pull five lengths on 2 different 964 race prepped RSAs from T3 to T4 at High Plains Rcwy...from mid-third gear to mid-5th gear.

Back "in the day" I had a Hartge tuned 323i BMW in Germany. Drove the car from new about 3,000 kilometers and then we installed a factory short ratio box...the difference in the car was absolutely amazing.

This would be the VERY first thing I would do with ANY street or dual purpose car were I to build another one. Weiner/Gamroth did my tranny back then, total cost - including four Guard gears and three steel syncros and a brand new Guard LSD was right around $11K.
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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 05:40 PM
  #30  
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Default Werk 1 sourced ROW MY96.. G50/21 gearbox . . .

+1 ... The short gearing performance enhancement would have a cow path to its door if not for the moderate expense is my guess. The gearbox swap or re-gear outcome is that good.

Then there's the tried and true displacement increase to 3.8, yes a budget scope altogether different.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.


Originally Posted by 993RS
I don't like engine mods either, that is why I went for short gearing...
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