Bridgestones or Michelin
08-02-2014, 10:36 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I would recommend a dedicated set of track wheels/tires versus burning up a set of street tires at the track. Superior traction with a set of Hoosiers, etc., plus you preserve your street tires.
And while you're at it, pop-in some track pads too, and remove them once back on the street.
And while you're at it, pop-in some track pads too, and remove them once back on the street.
Most are well served to do a season or two on street tires to really gain some skills. They'll know when they need more grip, and as Ken notes, that is associated with mechanical improvements to their car.
If I were inclined (meaning having the time) to track my 95, I know I'd have a ton of fun on streets, as I'm not planning on any more mods.
08-03-2014, 12:28 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
I suggested that instead of burning-up street tires on the track, to instead burn-up a set of dedicated track tires, thus preserving the expensive street tires.
Using track-tires on the track vs streets is completely independent of skill level, plus they're WAY cheaper. I can get a complete set of nearly-new, used R Hoosier's (265x18, 335x18) for $320 plus shipping, which is the cost of one Pilot Sport Cup street tire.
08-03-2014, 12:44 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Excuse me please, but I did not state anyone needs to go to slicks, etc. - reread my post.
I suggested that instead of burning-up street tires on the track, to instead burn-up a set of dedicated track tires, thus preserving the expensive street tires.
Using track-tires on the track vs streets is completely independent of skill level, plus they're WAY cheaper. I can get a complete set of nearly-new, used R Hoosier's (265x18, 335x18) for $320 plus shipping, which is the cost of one Pilot Sport Cup street tire.
I suggested that instead of burning-up street tires on the track, to instead burn-up a set of dedicated track tires, thus preserving the expensive street tires.
Using track-tires on the track vs streets is completely independent of skill level, plus they're WAY cheaper. I can get a complete set of nearly-new, used R Hoosier's (265x18, 335x18) for $320 plus shipping, which is the cost of one Pilot Sport Cup street tire.
08-03-2014, 02:09 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Again, if someone is a 1:57 driver in a 1:48 car at Laguna, s/he's not putting much wear on the tires. Further, figuring this typical entrant is only coming out 3-4 times a year, and we're down to rounding error of the tire's life expectancy.
08-03-2014, 12:22 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
08-03-2014, 12:33 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
And Hoosiers start cycling out, plus start showing front-to-rear balance problems after maybe the second session out. If it counts, you'd better be damned sure you're ready on lap 3 of your qualifying session with stickers. You won't come close ever again with that set.
Again, if someone is a 1:57 driver in a 1:48 car at Laguna, s/he's not putting much wear on the tires. Further, figuring this typical entrant is only coming out 3-4 times a year, and we're down to rounding error of the tire's life expectancy.
Again, if someone is a 1:57 driver in a 1:48 car at Laguna, s/he's not putting much wear on the tires. Further, figuring this typical entrant is only coming out 3-4 times a year, and we're down to rounding error of the tire's life expectancy.
In the meantime, they'll have a fresh set of expensive Michelin's to put back on after the event to drive on the street for years.
08-03-2014, 01:18 PM
#37
Drifting
you just lost your credibility
08-03-2014, 01:36 PM
#38
Drifting
I just took car to the track, the tires were pretty good, but you gotta bring the tire pressure down (30 cold, 36 hot) and they do soften a bit by the end of the session. They provide plenty of squeal in the turn but hold on to the surface so you know when you are getting to the limit. On spirited drives on public roads I never hear them. Tires are also great in rain and colder temperatures.
As I found out these tires are also extremely durable, I got a flat a week ago, which I could not tell because of stiff sidewall. Then I heard a pop, which sounded like I ran over something (it was actually tire blow out). I ended up driving for 15min on blown tire, cornering at speeds (although I knew something was up so I let it off a bit) and when we finally stopped I got out to check out the car - the rear tire was flat. When I took the wheel off I saw this all the way around. I'm amazed how well the tire held up. It wasn't tire defect, I found a puncture on the tire, which let the air out, which cause the blow-out. Thankfully ever rim wasn't damaged.
08-03-2014, 02:36 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Ken, I agree, and it works out perfectly - spending just $340 on a set of track tires which will easily last an entire season with a driver who's learning to track their car.
In the meantime, they'll have a fresh set of expensive Michelin's to put back on after the event to drive on the street for years.
In the meantime, they'll have a fresh set of expensive Michelin's to put back on after the event to drive on the street for years.
One thing I'd love to know is how your baseline degrades over these used tire's life. I pulled some data from the last set of Hoosiers I used on the faux RS, circa 2008. Thunderhill bypass. Best lap was Session 1, lap 3--1:58.883. Must have had traffic, because it took until lap 6 to go sub-2:00 again. Rest of the day I never cracked 2:00, save for two laps in the 3rd of 4 sessions where I managed 1:59.774/1:59.538. Three months later I couldn't crack 2:02 with that set (showed 14 heat cycles), and was actually quicker on some 5 year old RA1s. (Comparison is 993RSR at sub-1:50 by Pobst, and current similar pwr/wt ratio E36M3, the reigning NASA GT3 National Champion @ 1:52.XXX. Most 993 street cars with slight mods are usually around 2:10.)
That's about all I have to say on the subject here. Maybe 35 years of this has set me too far in my ways, but I've pretty much seen it all. Anyone have more specific questions, feel free to email me.
08-03-2014, 03:01 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
I've done plenty of track days-probably 6 or 7 tracks. Developed a pretty nice '84 DE car over about 10 years. Saw all kinds of stuff during that time. The ones that were the most predictable, and probably the most dangerous, were the guys that ran out and threw R compound tires on, after their 2nd or 3rd DE. When they lost the cars' control, they had not much help of recovering. Also, a car on stock suspension sure looks "sexy" going around turns on R's. The quality of handling on a car rolled over a lot, must be superb.
08-03-2014, 03:23 PM
#43
Having had the opportunity to drive the 993 back-to-back with MPS2 vs Bridgestone S-02 I would say that the S-02 gives a slightly better driver experience, due to the harder sidewalls.
So 'turn-in', precision, dynamic feedback, whatever other phrases you heard down the pit-lane, the S-02 is IME better than the MPS2.
Also IME the Bridgestone S-02 is a tyre that defies it's design age - it still works brilliantly on a 993 in the dry/warm and is better than modern tyres the R&D on which 'should' mean that the modern tyre wins... nope, not for my driving style.
Downsides? S-02 is not quite so good as the MPS2 in the cold and wet.
I wouldn't touch the S-04.
So 'turn-in', precision, dynamic feedback, whatever other phrases you heard down the pit-lane, the S-02 is IME better than the MPS2.
Also IME the Bridgestone S-02 is a tyre that defies it's design age - it still works brilliantly on a 993 in the dry/warm and is better than modern tyres the R&D on which 'should' mean that the modern tyre wins... nope, not for my driving style.
Downsides? S-02 is not quite so good as the MPS2 in the cold and wet.
I wouldn't touch the S-04.
08-03-2014, 05:40 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Suit yourself fellers. 
08-03-2014, 09:47 PM
#45
Drifting
