Turbo vs NA maintenence costs
07-21-2003, 04:23 PM
#16
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Oldguy,
Could I suggest checking out the 993 TT board. Theres a myriad of postings there which will give you a really good feel for any unique TT related issues (boost pressure etc).
Its always good to get as many views as possible when making a sizeable purchase as this - you are appraching it the right way.
Good luck in the hunt
Cheers
Macca
Could I suggest checking out the 993 TT board. Theres a myriad of postings there which will give you a really good feel for any unique TT related issues (boost pressure etc).
Its always good to get as many views as possible when making a sizeable purchase as this - you are appraching it the right way.
Good luck in the hunt
Cheers
Macca
07-21-2003, 05:48 PM
#17
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Temple,
I'm sorry, but I would like to try and clarify your comments regarding a Turbo / 4WD vs. a 2WD.
The short shifter install on the TT is as simple as it can get. ALL that is replaced is the shifter handle. No other rods, joints, couplers or bushings are touched. It is not necessary on the TT. As such, it is a little over an hour job. That is also why it is less expensive, because we do not have to replace as many parts.
Next, how did you save a thousand dollars on the clutch install because you have a 2WD? The # of parts is the same. Prices are comparable. The only extra labor is to not disconnect the 4WD coupler with a couple of bolts that are in plain sight. Where does the extra $1,000 savings come from? At Schatz Motorsport, the FVD sport setup (light flywheel, clutch and pressure plate) for a Turbo is $1690 vs the NA price of $1375.
Just want to clear these things up.
I'm sorry, but I would like to try and clarify your comments regarding a Turbo / 4WD vs. a 2WD.
The short shifter install on the TT is as simple as it can get. ALL that is replaced is the shifter handle. No other rods, joints, couplers or bushings are touched. It is not necessary on the TT. As such, it is a little over an hour job. That is also why it is less expensive, because we do not have to replace as many parts.
Next, how did you save a thousand dollars on the clutch install because you have a 2WD? The # of parts is the same. Prices are comparable. The only extra labor is to not disconnect the 4WD coupler with a couple of bolts that are in plain sight. Where does the extra $1,000 savings come from? At Schatz Motorsport, the FVD sport setup (light flywheel, clutch and pressure plate) for a Turbo is $1690 vs the NA price of $1375.
Just want to clear these things up.
07-21-2003, 07:55 PM
#18
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ViperBob, the $1000 price difference on the clutch n' flywheel job was quoted to me by an installer -- and I believe it was largely based on labor, although your price quote shows a $300 difference already for parts alone. I can't vouch for the validity of the need for such a price difference, as I am not a mechanically inclined (sadly) 
My statement regarding the short shifter is from both a friend who installed one in his C4S and information on SchatzMotorsport's website which does indicate that installation is more difficult for a C4S/Turbo due to some lack of clearance as quoted below:
Anyway, I've only done a few mods to my car but so far the fact that its a C2S v. C4S has been raised by installers on nearly every occassion regarding pricing and parts. Maybe I've just happened to do the few modifications to a 993 where the driveline difference actually matters and my perspective is skewed. I just thought it might be a helpful point in this thread, since it was about maintenance costs on a Turbo v. N/A and it seems to me that if the concern is about keeping costs down I'd guess a C2 is probably the cheapest route to consider (i.e., smaller standard brakes, tires, less weight, etc.)
At the end of the day, however, I don't think the maintenance costs add up to an amount significant enough to sway me from other considerations such as looks, HP, 2WD v. 4WD, initial cost, convertible, etc.
Hope that explains my thoughts and the source of my info. Always good to find out if I'm being (or have been) misled -- so that the next time I'm told I'll get the 'cheaper' deal because I have a C2S instead of a C4S, I'll know I'm being 'taken' and will leave to find a more honest installer.
My statement regarding the short shifter is from both a friend who installed one in his C4S and information on SchatzMotorsport's website which does indicate that installation is more difficult for a C4S/Turbo due to some lack of clearance as quoted below:
993 C4/T '94-98 (2 pc.) $120.00*
993 '95-98 (3 pc.) $359.00
993 '95-98 (2 pc.) $120.00
*requires modification - The installation of the short shifter is a straight forward replacement of the old lever with the new, as well as a modification to the center tunnel cover. The center tunnel cover must be modified for clearance by making a tear-drop shaped indentation under the shift rod. The cover should be heated and worked with a ballpeen hammer to stretch the metal so you can obtain the proper clearance, approximately 20 mm at it's lowest point. The tunnel cover must be supported while modifying in such a way that the mounting holes will retain their distance from each other.
993 '95-98 (3 pc.) $359.00
993 '95-98 (2 pc.) $120.00
*requires modification - The installation of the short shifter is a straight forward replacement of the old lever with the new, as well as a modification to the center tunnel cover. The center tunnel cover must be modified for clearance by making a tear-drop shaped indentation under the shift rod. The cover should be heated and worked with a ballpeen hammer to stretch the metal so you can obtain the proper clearance, approximately 20 mm at it's lowest point. The tunnel cover must be supported while modifying in such a way that the mounting holes will retain their distance from each other.
At the end of the day, however, I don't think the maintenance costs add up to an amount significant enough to sway me from other considerations such as looks, HP, 2WD v. 4WD, initial cost, convertible, etc.
Hope that explains my thoughts and the source of my info. Always good to find out if I'm being (or have been) misled -- so that the next time I'm told I'll get the 'cheaper' deal because I have a C2S instead of a C4S, I'll know I'm being 'taken' and will leave to find a more honest installer.
07-22-2003, 07:30 AM
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Temple,
Thanks for your response. I just want people have accurate information so that they do not automatically think that just because I have a Turbo or 4WD, that all of my maintenance and service costs are dramatically higher.
If an installer says they would charge $1000 more for a Turbo, this is an installer that you should be careful with your dealings. They either don't know what it will take (scary) or they charge more just because they figure they can get away with it by telling the owner "oh, well you have a Turbo / 4WD so it is more expensive", when it is not. These are the guys that set their prices by the size of your wallet. There are a lot of these guys out there, and we need to be very careful so we don't get taken or get shoddy work.
Also, Michael has not updated his website, but the Turbo price is only $95(or $99 I can't remember) for the short shifter as it is really only one piece. The tunnel mod is taking a ball peen hammer and 2 minutes of pounding (right Jeff?). Again as I mentioned, I had mine done in just over an hour.
So have fun with the car. Sounds like you are well on the way to modification heaven.....
Thanks for your response. I just want people have accurate information so that they do not automatically think that just because I have a Turbo or 4WD, that all of my maintenance and service costs are dramatically higher.
If an installer says they would charge $1000 more for a Turbo, this is an installer that you should be careful with your dealings. They either don't know what it will take (scary) or they charge more just because they figure they can get away with it by telling the owner "oh, well you have a Turbo / 4WD so it is more expensive", when it is not. These are the guys that set their prices by the size of your wallet. There are a lot of these guys out there, and we need to be very careful so we don't get taken or get shoddy work.
Also, Michael has not updated his website, but the Turbo price is only $95(or $99 I can't remember) for the short shifter as it is really only one piece. The tunnel mod is taking a ball peen hammer and 2 minutes of pounding (right Jeff?). Again as I mentioned, I had mine done in just over an hour.
So have fun with the car. Sounds like you are well on the way to modification heaven.....
07-22-2003, 07:55 AM
#20
Nothing quite like the exhiliration of taking a ball peen hammer to your exotic sports car. 
Bob, I think you summed up the whole maintaince issue quite nicely. It's interesting how this thread started. First there was mass confusion, and now we have some informed answers, and Mecca might have even changed his opinions on some things.
OldGuy, I'd say to get the p-car that you really want. Either way you choose, you'll be ok ( maintaince cost wise. ) Just be thankful that our cars don't require the service intervals/costs of a Ferrari.
Bob, I think you summed up the whole maintaince issue quite nicely. It's interesting how this thread started. First there was mass confusion, and now we have some informed answers, and Mecca might have even changed his opinions on some things.
OldGuy, I'd say to get the p-car that you really want. Either way you choose, you'll be ok ( maintaince cost wise. ) Just be thankful that our cars don't require the service intervals/costs of a Ferrari.
07-22-2003, 08:10 AM
#21
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Originally posted by Jeff 993TT
...OldGuy, I'd say to get the p-car that you really want. Either way you choose, you'll be ok ( maintaince cost wise. ) Just be thankful that our cars don't require the service intervals/costs of a Ferrari.
...OldGuy, I'd say to get the p-car that you really want. Either way you choose, you'll be ok ( maintaince cost wise. ) Just be thankful that our cars don't require the service intervals/costs of a Ferrari.
You know, you can probably get almost bran new Kia for about the same price as it costs to change the clutch on these cars and maintenance / year is probably as much as you spend buying peanuts at a football game.
But then again, maybe it's not as much fun to drive Kia as it is to drive Porsche...
