mpruden

How big of an improvement did the JLs make? I too am planning on installing the Dyns, but on the fence for the JLs.

NP993

They made a decent improvement. I don't really know how to describe it. Am I now driving inside a sound studio? No. Do they sound better than stock? Yes.

M. Schneider

The 130mm/5.25 inch mid-woofer is designed and manufactured by the firm Dr. Kurt Mueller GMBH, Germany. The automotive mid-woofer is simply marketed by JL Audio in North America, that's it.

That being said, the woofers performance is excellent, however its waaaay under its performing threshold when driven by the 20 year old, 993 HiFi options amplifier; Do not allow this Ok performance be representative of the woofers true potential. It rocks & rolls, period The Dynaudio/VW 3" perfromance is similarly positioned, its an exemplary speaker positioned ideally in the 993s middle door location.

I'm using the mid-woofer in a modified 993 HiFi bass reflex enclosure coupled with the Dyn 3" and the stock 993 tweeter pods. Entirely stealth. Every device is actively powered/addressed. The performance outcome is very good, certainly night and day from stock. Linearity cost money.

http://www.kurtmueller.com/index.php?id=2 Check their client reference tab. A who's who of Hi Fi companies.

nile13

Mike, I've had UniQs as well as pre-UniQ KEFs (C30, 102s, driven by MacIntoshes). Like the pre-UniQ stuff better. Than again, I was using 102s without Kube on principle alone. I guess I'm a bit old fashioned. My issue with Bose is using extremely cheap components, among other things. Then again, KEF never used anything good for their drivers either. At least their boxes were made well. On the related note, I've lived within 3 miles of the hill for almost 10 years and we autocrossed at their lot at least once a season in the early 2000s

Back to 993. I was initially also thinking of adopting the Hi-Fi boxes to take Focals. Decided against it for several reasons. Ended up simply enlarging the door hole and installing tweeters there. For the lower door position I've made a flat plywood plate similar in form to HiFi enclosure back panel. Drilled a hole in it, front-mounted teh woofer and mounted the crossover on it as well. Nice clean solution. Not my idea, there are several like it on Craigslist. I have a pic if you need it.

NP993, there are several things that are important in a speaker (tweeter in your case). One of them is efficiency. Focals are probably fairly low efficiency compared to paper weightless Nokias. Which would explain very low output. The capacitor you are seeing there is part of a hi-pass filter, I'm sure.

Kika

JL audio subwoofers are outstanding! I had an 8" micro sub in my 911SC, driven by a Precision Power 4x50 amp, stereo from and bridged mono for the sub.

As M. Schneider points out, unless there is sufficient power provided to it, the JL will be not perform as intended.

Simply put, good sound takes good clean power.

NP993

What is the difference between "good clean power" and turning the volume **** up? Never understood this....but then I don't understand much about stereo stuff....

Kika

Amplifiers are rated in watts, but not all watts are equal. It is a measure of total power dissipated, however, some amplifiers distort the original signal more than others.

Lesser brands of amplifiers, I.e. The kinds you will find in the alleys downtown, may advertise, say, 100 watts.

This is a bit deceptive, is that peak power, or RMS power? And at what Total Harmonic Distortion?

The truly deceptive will quote a peak power and not tell you what the THD is.

Most of your reputable brands, I.e. Audison, Precision Power, Alpine, Kenwood, Orion, Rockford Fosgate etc....will quote RMS power and I believe THD of 0.01%. Unfortunately there is no industry standard that says they have too.

Higher end I.e. Macintosh may even quote lower THD. And I believe others quote various powers at different THD levels.
Turning the volume know up is akin to increasing the gain on the amplifier, I.e. The multiplier, distortion
Will increase as the gain is increased, and if you turn it up all the way, typically it will start to clip and sound awful.

I use a Lunar amplifier in my 993 and primarily bought it for their reputation as sound quality amplifiers. At the time, it was one of the cleanest amplifiers available.

Incidentally, a lot of the really good brands actually under spec their power ratings, I.e. Porsche with HP ratings. In fact, you can think of watts similarly to Horsepower, that one number does not tell the true performance of a car as there are many other factors involved.

As long as you avoid the crap sold at swap meets and in alleys, and buy from a reputable company, you should be fine. If you want higher quality, you will have to look towards the high end installers.

My preference are the amplifiers built in the US, not the stuff mass produced in China, quality control just isn't there. If you notice, even Audison manufacturers amplifiers in China, but there high end line is built in Italy. Yes it costs more, but quality does.

It will also depend on what you listen too, if the source is mp3, then the sound quality is already compromised. iPod sourced music really ought to be AAC format, with a quality system, even I can tell the difference, and is am not an audiophile by any means, just an enthusiast.

M. Schneider

I think it was fello member KiKa who mentioned owning an amp by the former boutique firm Precision Power. The old company made high quality audio electronics for both 12v and 24v applications; cars, aircraft, specialty service vehicles, etc. Gold standard designs coupled with MIL spec components was the companies business model.
Audio amplifiers in this category cost money with there quality represented in lasting performance, think understated with the goods in spades! There are peers even today - regardless of the global crap being marketed.


Here's a cut n paste from the popular www.Crutchfeild.com online electronics retailer.
Try surfing their car amplifier section, once there adjust filter from high to low in price.

CEA-2006 Compliant products display this nomenclature, often in a products technical section.

.. Consumer Electronics Association - standard CEA-2006, "Testing & Measurement Methods for Mobile Audio Amplifiers." This "voluntary" standard advocates a uniform method for determining an amplifier's RMS power and signal-to-noise ratio. Using 14.4 volts, RMS watts are measured into a 4-ohm impedance load at 1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) plus noise, at a frequency range (for general purpose amplifiers) of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Signal-to-Noise ratio is measured in weighted absolute decibels (dBA) at a reference of 1 watt into 4 ohms. This applies to both external amplifiers and the amplifiers within in-dash receivers.

These firms, Alpine Electronics , www.mosconi-system.it and Soundstream to name a few, all market quality amplifiers suitable for placement under the 993s passenger seat. There are others ...

M. Schneider

NP993 -
As a stop gap btw selecting new tweeters consider this. By removing the fabric in front of the tweeter, the output level will increase somewhat. Once the pods are removed from the doors, the guts snap in and out of place.

nile13

Mike, unfortunately, they do not snap in and out easily. They are glued in there pretty good. At least 4 or 6 that I've gutted over the year with varying levels of success.

M. Schneider

Dam! IIRC when the tweeter's were off of the door cards on my 993.... Oh well. Lesson learned so much for that idea.

NP993

Mine weren't glued into the pods, snapped out pretty easily....Hanz and Franz at the factory must have had different techniques.

nile13

Interesting. And lucky, I guess . I probably still have a few broken tweeter housings somewhere in the basement. Had to dremel things out if the memory serves right.

But, like Mike said, a set of standard 23 mm (or, I assume 1" should fit too) tweets should fit into those housings just fine. Not the way I went, but that's a possibility.

NP993

Yeah, that's what I'd like to do -- but so far I just can't figure out a model of tweeter that will work with the stock head unit/amp/wiring. Tried some Focals but they were almost dead silent due to lack of power.

Anyone know a plug-n-play tweeter for hifi cars?

M. Schneider

NP993 -
Today I've purchased a pair of the Vifa 3/4" tweeters to play around with and although my 993's stereo system is far from OE (fully active) with a suitable sensitivity these might work with the stock OEM Hi Fi options arrangement - We'll see. Below find a few links.
There cost is about $19.00 to 22.00 each through internet sales venues.

The on-axis performance could work in the 993s tweeter, left field, location . . .

http://www.tymphany.com/peerless/tweeters

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vifa...iw=973&bih=473

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...tweeter-4-ohm/

Additionally, here's a blog where audio component tests are displayed. http://zaphaudio.com/blog.html

ALL disclaimers apply.