Pros and cons of 3.8
10-23-2013, 04:43 PM
#46
10-23-2013, 04:52 PM
#47
Race Director
While I agree that the price per horsepower ratio is terrible for the 3.8 upgrade, I personally would not want to use forced induction because of the increase of weight in the back, and that is also why I wouldn't want to buy a turbo, which is a great car, but basically a completely different animal than a narrow body rear wheel drive 993. Clearly weight loss is by far the most cost effective approach to increasing 993 performance, and that is currently how I am approaching the problem. But at some point I would also like to find a way to increase horsepower without increasing weight, and I imagine I will have to bite the bullet and pay the big bucks knowing that I will not see a commensurate increase in the value of the car.
When you've shaved 1,200lbs off the car, you let me know.
Additionally, doing any serious weight loss compromises the useability of the car. No A/C, door panels with no arm rest, fixed seats, no sunroof, no radio, no sound deadening, no rear seats, etc.
All this fuss over a 6 hour job to remove the front differential and related components?
Hell, buy the turbo, take out the AWD, throw in some muffler deletes, and you're about even on weight, with more power.
10-23-2013, 05:27 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
It's really a never ending story... Ask me how I know it...
Question should be: why do you want more power? If you want to beat other cars in traffic lights (stupid in my opinion), a 30hp addition will do you absolutely nothing.
If you want to turn faster laps at a track, look at weight saving, suspension etc. first.
If you just want to make car feel more aggressive/faster, put in a lightweight flywheel, free flowing exhaust and more agressive mapping. This will cost you much less than a 3.8 conversion and will feel faster than 3.8 too.
With regards to the supercharger, it really doesn't add much weight as you are also removing a lot of stuff. But it definately makes the car a lot faster.
A turbo engine would be even better.
And i also agree regarding the gearing, with shorter close ratio gears the car will feel much much more powerful.
It's all down to what you are looking for. But i think a 3.8 upgrade is a total waste in any case.
Question should be: why do you want more power? If you want to beat other cars in traffic lights (stupid in my opinion), a 30hp addition will do you absolutely nothing.
If you want to turn faster laps at a track, look at weight saving, suspension etc. first.
If you just want to make car feel more aggressive/faster, put in a lightweight flywheel, free flowing exhaust and more agressive mapping. This will cost you much less than a 3.8 conversion and will feel faster than 3.8 too.
With regards to the supercharger, it really doesn't add much weight as you are also removing a lot of stuff. But it definately makes the car a lot faster.
A turbo engine would be even better.
And i also agree regarding the gearing, with shorter close ratio gears the car will feel much much more powerful.
It's all down to what you are looking for. But i think a 3.8 upgrade is a total waste in any case.
10-23-2013, 08:53 PM
#51
Race Director
10-23-2013, 10:12 PM
#52
I've never experimented w/ the variant coding pins but from what I have gathered all the DME's contain multiple programming for different country compliance, the different programs are accessed by grounding various pins to each other or ground, so what you suggest is certainly a good possibility
Who knows, maybe even revised spark advance & LWF magic..
thx!
10-23-2013, 10:30 PM
#53
Technical Guru
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The RS ignition timing maps, etc. are on a specific eprom and not part of the regular ecu that everybody has. I was just trying to give an explanation for what Gert had said, "The ecu in the kit is always the one of the RS and does not work with the wiring harness of a normal 993. I never understood why Porsche did this." based on my experience with the 964RS ecu. (and yes I have dumped and disassembled the normal 993 ECU).
10-23-2013, 10:38 PM
#54
The RS ignition timing maps, etc. are on a specific eprom and not part of the regular ecu that everybody has. I was just trying to give an explanation for what Gert had said, "The ecu in the kit is always the one of the RS and does not work with the wiring harness of a normal 993. I never understood why Porsche did this." based on my experience with the 964RS ecu. (and yes I have dumped and disassembled the normal 993 ECU).
10-24-2013, 04:17 AM
#55
Sometimes money, figures, power, sense & reason just dont matter!
If you want to do it, do it! These cars are our hobby, look at golfers, some change their clubs every month and end up worse off all round! I bet this can be said for most Sunday hobbies. The OP's car is obviously his pride and joy and I dont blame him in the slightest for anything he has done or does!
If you want to do it, do it! These cars are our hobby, look at golfers, some change their clubs every month and end up worse off all round! I bet this can be said for most Sunday hobbies. The OP's car is obviously his pride and joy and I dont blame him in the slightest for anything he has done or does!
10-24-2013, 04:41 AM
#56
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+ 1 . . . . To each his own.
If you want to do it, do it! These cars are our hobby, look at golfers, some change their clubs every month and end up worse off all round! I bet this can be said for most Sunday hobbies. The OP's car is obviously his pride and joy and I dont blame him in the slightest for anything he has done or does!
10-24-2013, 08:24 AM
#57
on OBD1 993 there is a similar 2 pin pigtail w/ 3 engine maps pin 54 is the DME control point, open is RoW, 1kohm bridge is M150, grounded is USA, Canada w/ SAI. If a n aftermarket chip is used I assume the above does not apply
10-24-2013, 08:32 AM
#59
The RS ignition timing maps, etc. are on a specific eprom and not part of the regular ecu that everybody has. I was just trying to give an explanation for what Gert had said, "The ecu in the kit is always the one of the RS and does not work with the wiring harness of a normal 993. I never understood why Porsche did this." based on my experience with the 964RS ecu. (and yes I have dumped and disassembled the normal 993 ECU).
I sent Jason the chips at that time so that he could look at the code
10-24-2013, 08:43 AM
#60
Money and value will be held in different esteem by each of us
As someone that has done the motor(3.8RS), the trans(g50/30Cup/RSR), and weight loss(~2700#) The car is a totally different and totally satisfying animal than what it was when I bought it. The goal was to approximate a Cup car(I do 2-3k track mi a year) while staying street legal(sortof). I think that I succeeded, money was not the primary concern, the result was, I think that if resale is a primary concern go buy a Cayman S or 991S and let the car do more of the work but if you want to retain old school involvement w/ increased performance a project like this whether you start w/ a 911, 964 or 993 is very rewarding
BTW in the latest Pano there is a great article on Leh Keen's '95 993Cup and it's history w/ him and his Dad. A great read
As someone that has done the motor(3.8RS), the trans(g50/30Cup/RSR), and weight loss(~2700#) The car is a totally different and totally satisfying animal than what it was when I bought it. The goal was to approximate a Cup car(I do 2-3k track mi a year) while staying street legal(sortof). I think that I succeeded, money was not the primary concern, the result was, I think that if resale is a primary concern go buy a Cayman S or 991S and let the car do more of the work but if you want to retain old school involvement w/ increased performance a project like this whether you start w/ a 911, 964 or 993 is very rewarding
BTW in the latest Pano there is a great article on Leh Keen's '95 993Cup and it's history w/ him and his Dad. A great read