goofballdeluxe

Sorry, wasn't talking to you directly

What I meant was, with all the electronic driver aids and nannies, it doesn't take as much skill to drive in a 991.

Now the 993, that's a whole different story. That's kind of my point

Garrison

I have to say that I love rowing the gears in my 993, and all previous 911's. However, I would take one of these 991 GT3's in a heartbeat...still keep the 993, but would love to have one of these for track duty.

MishaDesigns

Im still waiting on someone doing a manual swap into the 991

Bill Verburg

It would be a snap to do that, as the 993 7spd manual has the identical case as the pdk

Falcondrivr

I want one. This video sold me.

Macca

What I love about that video is he hangs it right out there numerous times still within his narrow lane without crossing the white lines. Im not sure if that's a function of RWS or a more responsive front end keying into the surface but to get that oversteer in a 993 Id have to start a lot wider and the *** would be over the line and Id still be going 1/3 of the speed!

ilko

They did. With the "old" Metzger engine, not the new 9A1

goofballdeluxe

Chris Harris brings up a good point in the video with fact vs. philosophy and why I'm not a huge fan of many latest gen cars, including this one. Sounds like he's not either.

A good case in point is the electric steering in the 991s vs. hydraulic steering. Why did Porsche opt for it? MPG, or it's cheaper? Not performance. Not because it's the best option. I don't like that thinking. And yes, PDK is another. Yes, it's faster, but a manual adds so much driver involvement, and you can't even get a manual in their driver's car? And then, the driving nannies etc...

Don't get me wrong, Porsche is following the money, which is following the customer, who is ever lazier, less skilled and less interested in the learning curve of learning to drive well. Therefore, electric steering, PDK only and driving nannies because Average Joe Customer is ignorant about steering, too lazy to shift gears, and too stupid to know how to drive the car, so the nannies can do it for him.

I'm sure the car is incredibly capable. The driver, however, doesn't need to be.

Macca

Many people have said things like "and too stupid to know how to drive the car, the driver doesn't have to be good to go fast etc".

Sure every iteration of the 911 since 1963 could be blamed for this. ABS, Power steering, ABD, Traction control, etc etc etc.

It doesnt bother me if less skilled people can extract more performance from the 991 GT3 than they could the 993 RS. Im only concerned about MY driving experience. Im not driving god but Id like to say after owning the 993 for 13 years and starting to increasingly get into motorsport events Im handier behind the wheel than the average punter.

I simply see the 991 GT3 as a way to make a good driver even better. Many keep complaining it makes average drivers good. Who cares? A skilled 911 driver will extract far more performance and quicker times out of the new 991 GT3 than a poor 911 driver regardless.

Of course Id never sell the 993. Its slow sure, but its organic and fun and a miracle of packaging. However the 991 GT3 is as far as you can get from it and for me that is a big part of the appeal (plus comfort, reliability, increased performance on road and track etc).

Reviews will start coming thick and thin now. This is the latest by Autocar UK who declare it the best 911 ever. I understand there are a few more that will hit the net in teh next week from US publications and from what I hear the praise just gets louder. Will be interesting to see if finally the naysayers start to question wether they should trash the car they havent yet driven (or really anyone properly for that matter). I think the real revelation will be the first track reviews. From what Im hearing the new GT3 knocks a healthy margin off the 4.0RS on some longer distance tracks in Europe...

Falcondrivr

Macca +1
If an unskilled driver can get a high level from the car, a skilled driver will be able to get a whole other level.

Dan V

After watching the RSRs win GT at Le Mans, seems bizarre that any Porsche enthusiast would whine about the absence of a stick shift in a 991. It's about as smart as sticking your arm out the window of your car to signal a turn - "what, are you so lazy you need electric turn signals?". yeah, you're my hero.

Knight

Macca - in your opinion do you think there is any chance the RS will be offered in a manual?

goofballdeluxe

I think the difference here is we're not pro race car drivers at the track, all of us are driving on the street or are amateur track rats. And anyone can use a turn signal; it takes no skill. Not everyone can heel and toe and drive a stick well.

I think lots of Porsche enthusiasts will miss having a stick shift in their ultimate street sports car, since they offered it in all their cars for the past 60 years or so. Except maybe those who can't drive a stick, are lazy, or anyone who thinks performance numbers are everything for amateur drivers on the street. If that's the case, a few hot rod Fords and Mustangs can do a similar job for half the price or less. A tape measure or ruler is even less money for those types

Macca

Knight. None. I dont think we will see the possible return of a MT until 991.2 GT3/RS and that's if we do at all. I think by then the PDK will be accepted and in any case the MT will not deliver on paper the same level of stats the manufacturers are currently competing on.

In the USA the auto became kin in the 60s/70s. In little old New Zealand everyone drove a manual up until recently. In-fact many of us have never regularly driven an auto. I think its very similar in UK and Europe where auto was expensive option and thristy and gas was expensive and people skilled to sort out the transmissions few and far between.

Subsequently I suspect "true sports cars" in the psychy of the American hardcore Porsche enthusiast MUST be MT. As the number of MT enthusiasts in the USA buts be a small fraction of the population at large and the Porsche fraternity portion of this even smaller (and more fanatical?) again I think we really are looking at the "pointy end" of MT passion in this group. Dont get me wrong its a good thing not a bad thing and it may be the ONLY reason Porsche bring back the MT. Its good however not to forget where this is probably all going. The same was as power steering, abs, TC, 4WD etc in making cars safer, quicker and more efficient as well as easier to live with.

In this context the 993 and 964 manual cars should fair very well in the future are pure enthusiasts machines...

Holger3.2

Controversial as usual…
The main question stays… “WHAT DO I WANT?”
If I’m racing, I want to win, no matter how. Therefore I try to get more bhp, a better suspension, and better brakes etc. as my competitor. Even in a one design class; I try to get an edge anywhere possible. I remember the then unbeatable ‘computer guided’ Williams from Nigel Mansell who got World Champion in ‘92. Two years later the systems were prohibited and A. Senna died in more or less the same car but without the ‘electricals’ coz it was even in Ayarton’s own words ‘un-drivable’.

If I want fun in going around the track and enjoy MY driving, I want to ‘feel’ the street; I want to ‘feel’ the car; I want to decide when to accelerate, when to break, how hard and if I want to enjoy a drift or not etc. coz I don’t have to be the fastest guy of the day.

So if I want to win races, (btw. In the past we used already e.g. a ‘sequential gearbox’with clutch not really needed anymore; never hear somebody complain about that…); again, If I want to win races I need the new 991 GT3 (RS / R), I have to have the ability to drive up and above the edge incl. all the invisible helpers and I wouldn't give a sh*t how I made it first to the checkered flag.

Who thinks different is NOT a REAL racer ... or races classics anyway … or Walter Roehrl (sorry forgot about him ...)

If I want an intense joy ride, I get a car without a computer, below 1,200 better below 1,000kg, even better without roof and without anything else what isn’t really necessary*. The edge will come much faster but I have to know it before I reach there … otherwise I will feel even more the sometimes funny nature of physics.

*Old style P’cars might be an acceptable exception …
IMHO