how to make a 993 handle better?
#16
Drifting
I think NYC993 may be understanding what I'm describing best---perhaps I am simply not used to having such sensitive steering? This is after all, my first true sports car. Other cars were are a 2002 WRX and 2010 VW JettaWagon and although great cars with decent handling, likely not as sensitive to input as the 993.
Thanks again for all the input. I look forward to hearing more input!
#17
Rennlist Member
Yeah baby!
This one is VERY critical and many shops without a thorough understanding of 993 rear kinematic toe geometry pooh-pooh this one.
Your shop must have either the factory kinematic tool, or the Autometrix kinematic tool to do this correctly. The only other way is to actually measure bump steer at the rear axle, however that's only useful if you have adjustable rear links such as the ERP ones.
Your shop must have either the factory kinematic tool, or the Autometrix kinematic tool to do this correctly. The only other way is to actually measure bump steer at the rear axle, however that's only useful if you have adjustable rear links such as the ERP ones.
If you want to get to 6th heaven, you'll need, in addition to the ERP adjustable links, don't forget the ERP solid subframe mounts as well as the rear control arm mono *****.
For 7th heaven, you'll need to address the front suspension as well with a full compliment of ERP monoballs along with your previously installed in 5th Heaven, 993 RS uprights and ERP Tie Rods (Very similar to GT2 tie rods, no rubber joints, all heim joints!). And of course you'll need your ERP camber plates. The last requirement to get to the apex of heaven, #7, get the car aligned by a very knowledgable shop and get the rear bump steer set up as Steve mentions above. My "Baby" is having her ERP tie rods installed this week, and is getting her bump steer dialed in....7th heaven, few can imagine the perpetual joy. Talk to Steve, he'll get you there.
However, should you want to explore a new arena, 8th heaven, have Steve build you a G-50 32 close ration transmission. This is the box found in the 993 RS Club Sport...and of course a rugged LSD...cars found in 8th heaven also have 993 RS motor mounts, RS transmission mount, RS "Golden Rod"and short shift kit from FD Motorsports. These aforementioned parts were installed back in 5th heaven along with FD Motorsports Stage III mufflers and a Fabspeed 200 cell cats along with their X pipe. These same cars also have Big Reds on the front and 993 RS calipers on the rear, as well as lightweight wheels such as O-Z Allegrirtta wheels from Tire rack. The also have a second oil cooler they acquired from Gert at Carnewal in Belgium. And of course these cars in 8th heaven all have a 993 RS, or 993 RS Club Sport aero kits installed.
9th Heaven? Hard to imagine...but I believe there is a 993 RS Club Sport 3.8 motor in this mix.
Note: All of the gibberish above is a direct result of a severe case of jet lag coming off 10 days in Spain, a 9 hour time difference for me...4 days later I am still on the Spanish clock.
#18
Rennlist Member
I really think the problem is the continental DWS tires. These are not n-spec and have relatively soft sidewalls. The rear tires work hard with the rear weight bias. I have found thst 40 psi rear works best. I have also found that replacing engine mounts with rs brought s I me feeling of control back. I have been meaning to have the kinematic toe checked again. Maybe you could find someone with a spare set of wheels/tires that you could test.
Edit - I have 17"
Edit - I have 17"
Last edited by vincer77; 06-06-2013 at 12:17 AM.
#19
Nordschleife Master
Even with 18s, I have found that 44 is too high.
Porsche recommended and what works best for a given situation are different things.
Every set up will work a little different, but I have seen very few where 44 on the rears is the optimal. 36-40 is the typical range for the rears, and 32-38 for the front.
OP will need to experiment to see what works best for him.
Porsche recommended and what works best for a given situation are different things.
Every set up will work a little different, but I have seen very few where 44 on the rears is the optimal. 36-40 is the typical range for the rears, and 32-38 for the front.
OP will need to experiment to see what works best for him.
#20
Rennlist Member
Sounds like you are on the right track. I'd be interested to see if your shop did the Kinematic toe.
I would lower the tire pressure too. That can make a huge difference. If you go on a long drive check to see if it spikes on you much - I went on a few 3 - 4 hour drives and was surprised how much it can jump (and change the feel of the car)
Roads make a huge difference here too. Asphalt is my favorite, but most of our roads are concrete. Concrete is good when <5 years old, but once they start patching it and the expansion joints settle a little, it's awful and at speed, horrible.
I would lower the tire pressure too. That can make a huge difference. If you go on a long drive check to see if it spikes on you much - I went on a few 3 - 4 hour drives and was surprised how much it can jump (and change the feel of the car)
Roads make a huge difference here too. Asphalt is my favorite, but most of our roads are concrete. Concrete is good when <5 years old, but once they start patching it and the expansion joints settle a little, it's awful and at speed, horrible.
#21
Intermediate
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Sorry, its been a busy few days.
So the answer from my shop was that they did not do kinematic toe. I am guessing from the overwhelming number of responses that this may be my issue. I guess I did not think the alignment would be so complicated for a street driven, only moderately aggressively driven car---but I will have to look into this if my "handling" issue continues to bother me. My prior cars never needed kinematic toe alignment etc---but I will certainly do some research in this area.
The notes on lowering tire pressures---duly noted. I do have the 18" ?Classic Sport II wheels as pictured, but will lower the rears from 44lbs to around 40 and give it a shot.
All comments have definitely been appreciated!
So the answer from my shop was that they did not do kinematic toe. I am guessing from the overwhelming number of responses that this may be my issue. I guess I did not think the alignment would be so complicated for a street driven, only moderately aggressively driven car---but I will have to look into this if my "handling" issue continues to bother me. My prior cars never needed kinematic toe alignment etc---but I will certainly do some research in this area.
The notes on lowering tire pressures---duly noted. I do have the 18" ?Classic Sport II wheels as pictured, but will lower the rears from 44lbs to around 40 and give it a shot.
All comments have definitely been appreciated!
#22
Rennlist Member
Might be time for a trip upstate...to...
Rochester to see Joel Reiser at Reiser Technik. He is world class and knows and understands 993 suspension like few in the US. It's only 8 hours to Rochester from NYC and the weather is great, for a few more weeks, at least. Look up Reiser Callas racing and see what they did with their 993, with no factory support. When you get your car back from Joel...the mysteries will be solved...and just think of the ride back home!!!!