993 Tiptronic swap to manual six speed (anecdote)
03-01-2013, 02:17 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
993 Tiptronic swap to manual six speed (anecdote)
I have posted bits of this in other threads but thought it may help to have it in a thread where it will come up in a search.
It is a big job. It is a difficult job to do right. It makes NO! sense financially. If there is not some other reason why you want to keep your tip car, but with a manual trans, you’d be FAR ahead to sell it and buy a manual car.
I wanted to keep my car because it is the AR on black C2S that I want. They seem to be rare, or at least rarely for sale. In 2005 I accidentally bought the car with the tip (link to another story, another time, post 13). My car does have some sentimental value and is a known quantity as far as maintenance and past reliability. Others I have talked to have done this swap because there are very few manual trans cars available in their country.
It would cost roughly $8k-$10k (IMO, USD in the USA) to source the parts. Labor for a 'factory' type install would probably be $3k-$5k. Having done a couple of similar projects I knew the only way to get it done as 'factory' without breaking the bank is to have a donor car right next to the project car. This gives you every piece of hardware, electrical connections, ... as came from the factory. I thought if I could get a donor car in the $20k range, use what I needed from it and part/sell the rest, the total cost would be about $10k. Plus a LOT of work parting and selling the bits of the donor car.
The project ended up costing me more than I planned due to while-you-are-there kind of stuff and because the donor car was so nice I wouldn't part it out. I ended up swapping the transmissions both ways and selling the donor car with the tiptronic in it (and full disclosure).
My plan included the use of a shop with two lifts side-by-side. A friend, and expert Porsche tech, who owns the shop gave me a discounted labor rate if he could do the work during his slowest time of the year (Dec/Jan) and on a lower priority basis. I hired him do all of the mechanical work. I only did the electrical part. So the labor for my swap was about half what it would have cost otherwise.
I’m not sorry that I did the swap. I now have the exact car I wanted and my wallet has recovered. I drove the car for five years and many track days with the tiptronic. It is a completely different (better) driving experience with the manual trans. The value of my car is less than it would be if it was a factory six speed but may be more than it was as tiptronic? The monetary value is really not pertinent as I have no plans to sell it.
Some things I needed for the swap that may not be obvious:
Manual trans ECU (Tiptronic ECU looks for trans okay signal via OBD, turns on CEL if it’s not there. Then there are all kinds of issues getting the necessary coding into the manual trans ECU with a tiptronic VIN. Two different dealers couldn't/wouldn't do it. Steve Weiner ended up saving the project for me.);
electrical wiring, switches, and connectors for pedal assembly and manual trans;
speedometer (unless you don’t mind having tiptronic gear indicator in manual car),
steering wheel (unless you don’t mind having tiptronic button in manual car),
clutch vent tubing and engine tin to accommodate it,
manual pedal assembly floorboard.
Here's the only pic I have on this computer.
It is a big job. It is a difficult job to do right. It makes NO! sense financially. If there is not some other reason why you want to keep your tip car, but with a manual trans, you’d be FAR ahead to sell it and buy a manual car.
I wanted to keep my car because it is the AR on black C2S that I want. They seem to be rare, or at least rarely for sale. In 2005 I accidentally bought the car with the tip (link to another story, another time, post 13). My car does have some sentimental value and is a known quantity as far as maintenance and past reliability. Others I have talked to have done this swap because there are very few manual trans cars available in their country.
It would cost roughly $8k-$10k (IMO, USD in the USA) to source the parts. Labor for a 'factory' type install would probably be $3k-$5k. Having done a couple of similar projects I knew the only way to get it done as 'factory' without breaking the bank is to have a donor car right next to the project car. This gives you every piece of hardware, electrical connections, ... as came from the factory. I thought if I could get a donor car in the $20k range, use what I needed from it and part/sell the rest, the total cost would be about $10k. Plus a LOT of work parting and selling the bits of the donor car.
The project ended up costing me more than I planned due to while-you-are-there kind of stuff and because the donor car was so nice I wouldn't part it out. I ended up swapping the transmissions both ways and selling the donor car with the tiptronic in it (and full disclosure).
My plan included the use of a shop with two lifts side-by-side. A friend, and expert Porsche tech, who owns the shop gave me a discounted labor rate if he could do the work during his slowest time of the year (Dec/Jan) and on a lower priority basis. I hired him do all of the mechanical work. I only did the electrical part. So the labor for my swap was about half what it would have cost otherwise.
I’m not sorry that I did the swap. I now have the exact car I wanted and my wallet has recovered. I drove the car for five years and many track days with the tiptronic. It is a completely different (better) driving experience with the manual trans. The value of my car is less than it would be if it was a factory six speed but may be more than it was as tiptronic? The monetary value is really not pertinent as I have no plans to sell it.
Some things I needed for the swap that may not be obvious:
Manual trans ECU (Tiptronic ECU looks for trans okay signal via OBD, turns on CEL if it’s not there. Then there are all kinds of issues getting the necessary coding into the manual trans ECU with a tiptronic VIN. Two different dealers couldn't/wouldn't do it. Steve Weiner ended up saving the project for me.);
electrical wiring, switches, and connectors for pedal assembly and manual trans;
speedometer (unless you don’t mind having tiptronic gear indicator in manual car),
steering wheel (unless you don’t mind having tiptronic button in manual car),
clutch vent tubing and engine tin to accommodate it,
manual pedal assembly floorboard.
Here's the only pic I have on this computer.
Last edited by hoggel; 03-01-2013 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Added link to another story
03-01-2013, 02:32 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Glad to see it's all worked out. No doubt you're in the "one of" territory where there was some semblance of the project making sense. I did a couple Sporto-to-915 manual swaps back in the Olden Days where it wasn't much more than a clutch job. And there were plenty of parts laying around. Drew the line at the first G50-into-915 a guy wanted me to help on. New torsion tube never got installed corectly.
And, as you found out, none of those projects required dealing with electronics...........
And, as you found out, none of those projects required dealing with electronics...........
03-01-2013, 04:02 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I bought an additional car harness so that I could just strip the necessary manual wires and connections from it for my car. That way I didn't have to cut into the donor car harness or swap the entire harnesses between cars. The harnesses are sealed with some nasty stuff. It is a real PITA to get complete wires out of them!
