Juha G

Ok, we took a plunge at this front suspension tonight with a friend of mine.
We removed the crossbar and drilled new bolt holes in it and I also made spacers for the brake booster. I didn't have 30mm aluminum plate easily available so I ended up making the spacers from 20+10mm plates. They don't look very nice .but hey, who cares as long they do the job and don't weigh a ton...

We almost got everything back together but then found out the deal about the brake lever arm; the opening for the steering axle on the longitudinal side member (which is actually just the part that we are moving), ends up directly on the brake lever line. So I suppose I have to move the brake lever a bit since I don't think much can be done with the side member!?

I also measured the "available" thread on the tie rods; there is just that 30mm. So it won't work unless there is more to gain from the inner rod. I suppose the race cars had completely different tierods!?
Of course I can make an extension to the rod but should I just get a pair of aftermarket tie rods with adequate adjustments?

One more thing that I noticed was that the sway bars have the limiters on the inside next by the bushings (to prevent the swaybar from moving from side to side). By moving the side members 30mm out, there will be that same 30mm for the swaybar to travel from side to side. Don't know if that will become a problem or not. Or should I weld some stopper on the new location of the bushing?

bobt993

Juha, you need to GT2 tie rods I purchased mine from Stable Energy. We made up a solid bushing and added longer hardware to the sway bar bushings. I have TRG Cup bars which are slightly wider than stock. Tarrett drop links work. You can add a little spacer at the hub with the rest at the bar. I did warn you about the brake lever arm. Two options. Machine the cross member a small bit so the shim to the left will be less or move the entire vacuum unit to the left ( you may or may not have room some hit the tub). You need to enlarge the opening in the firewall for the brake lever arm to move left a small bit (this is pretty easy). You will get there.

Last is the camber plates. Depending on the range you will need to reverse them (swap sides) and add max positive camber to the factory adjustment on the hub (this helps with shock tower clearance). You will find without the camber adjustment you will start at about 9 degs minimum camber. Be patient with the brake lines. They need some gentle bending.

bobt993

Juha,

I just had a chance to look at your picture of the spacers for the brake booster and that won't work. You will find that without machining the cross member the brake lever will bind so you have to move it all to one side. Next option is a compromise and move it a little shy of the top of the brake booster reservoir touching the tub and making some room where the brake lever arm hits. The arm has to angle out a bit and that is where the firewall needs a bigger opening. You are adding a bit of angle to the brake lever arm, but for some damn reason it does not care about the geometry change. I was told this when I did mine and Glens. Neither of us have had an issue in the past two years. First time it takes a bit, but after that it is early afternoon on the project. Also the front nose you pretty much have to nix the inner brake duct tunnels they make. This I can take a picture of right now and will send it to you.

ble2011

I came across this front bumper and thought I would post because I liked it. Too late, I know, but then again, it's never too late to change your mind!

Flying Finn

Well something's simple then!

Yeah, take it off and put the RS reservoir in the trunk instead. It's like a liter or so, plenty fine for your occasional needs.

Juha G

Ok, got the job done tonight. All together it took us abt. 6 hours, so not exactly a walk in the park. But if I'd do it again, it think it would only take half of that, now that I know what to do and in what order...

It turned out that the keeping the brake booster in the original location (30mm spacers on both ends), allows enough room for the brake lever arm. The arm goes directly above the opening for the tie rod in the side member. With pedal depressed there is abt. 1-2mm clearance between the arm and the side member and the gap widens as you push the pedal (the pedal end of the arm moves up).
I filed the side member top slightly just to allow for more clearance when the pedal is not pressed.

Some more things to do; there is not enough thread in the RS tierods to bring them to the new location. (and guys, please don't advice me to buy GT2 tie rods as those are not available any more and Porsche offers these same RS tie rods as a replacement, plus the street GT2 tie rods were in any case equal in length to the RS rods, so would have not helped either. Aftermarket GT2 tierods are probably different thing, they may have more adjustment range).
I will fabricate tie rod extension hubs that will go between the inner tie rod and the steering axle. This way I will be able to maintain the steering geometry as the pivot point moves out that 30mm as well.
The extension will have female thread on one end that goes on the inner tierod and male thread on the other end that goes into the steering axle. Will post pics once their done. Fortunately I have access to a lathe and some friends who know how to use one...


Pics or it didn't happen:

Juha G

The bumper looks cool but I'm all for original Porsche things and also like to keep the car period correct. So no go...

Sounds like a plan Petu....!

bobt993

These work Juha.

http://www.tarett.com/items/993-964-...008-detail.htm

They also have some bump steer adjustment. This is what Glen and I used.

Kein_Ersatz

Pic = 1000 words!

Juha G

Those would definately do the trick but my tie rod ball joints are in very good conditions, plus I have a new set (the GT2 outers) as spares. So I think I'll just fab the extensions for now.
The other thing is, and I don't know if it has any effect or not, that using longer outer rods, the geometry is different from stock. Whereas if you use longer inner rods, the pivot point moves out as well and the geometry is maintained.

I finally found some pics on the net of GT2's with the same body kit that I have (this is not the street GT2 body kit, but the FVD 14" kit).
The first pic is of a 993 GT2R, the kit is identical to mine:




These pics are of a street GT2 (tt converted to GT2 evo look with RUF engine), the body kit is almost identical; the front bumper looks to be some kind of aftermarket tuning crap but else it looks exactly like the one I have.

Looking at this car, I will want to spend some extra time on the fore part of the rear fender flare, it seems to be sticking out. The darker colour and the gaskets that I will use will ofcourse help but I want to make it look good too.

I like the "splitters" below the side skirts but would like to see some on a race car before I add those. I'd hate to ruin the aero perfected by experts using wind tunnel tests etc...

bobt993

Juha,

Are you using the EVO uprights ? I understand that you need to use them to get the geometry correct with the movement of the wheel carriers. The Tarrett tie rods ( I think ERP actually makes them) are intended to match up with the EVO uprights and have several bushings for bump steer. You also need to fit the rim on the car and check that the inner barrel does not hit the bottom bolt on the tie rod end. Mine came within 20mm so I modified the end bolt. Look at your strut tower clearance also. The inner wheel half gets very close to the suspension. The best trick is to set the factory camber as positive as you can then adjust the camber at the top of the shock tower. The pictures you provided are nice and show how clean the look can be.

curve lover

Juha-- Gobsmackingly bonzer
Even better: "2 for 1" ... flushing out Washabi's secret build-in-progress
Brian-- ^^ ^^

Washabi

hahah, my build is nothing really special.. I have talked to a couple of other people here on Rennlist that were a tremendous amount of help to me, providing me with a load of information that was otherwise non-existent on the interwebs. I do have a couple of pictures that I snapped last week at the body shop, but none have those have been processed, let alone uploaded, yet. It's a slow build, but I'm hoping that the 993 will be a work of art when it's all said and finished.

Working on the body first (still looking for a GT2 rear decklid spoiler!) and then next comes motor work, following with suspension and interior work. I am not trying to rush the process of the car as it's basically a work-in-progress and I'm fairly busy (Graduating from University at the end of this year and working). I will most likely be posting a build thread for the Porsche when I have more updates and will post up progress pictures and anything interesting that I run into along the way.

-Brian

PS. we want to see more updates!!!

Juha G

Screw you guys...I'm going home...

Yes, I have EVO uprights. with the geometry I meant the geometry of the steering axle. The pivot point is in the inner tierod so I want to move that out as well. Therefore I will add the extension between the inner tierod and the steering axle.

With regards to the camber, I think I should have more than enough adjustment on the top plates:




Some little progress today; I fitted the valves for the muffler bypass and marked them. Will take the mufflers and the valves to the local shop to get the bypass pipes welded on and valves fitted.

I also dismantled the front even further for fitting the EVO bumper. Emptied the AC refridgerant and remove all coolers from the front.
The bumber is WIDE!!!! And I can see it is made for the race car tub; it won't fit the street tub with the crash bars/beams in place.
So did you guys just cut an opening in the front bumper in that area?
Could it be used for brake cooling?

Flying Finn

By the way, what's the plan with the annual inspection?

Will you just roll in and play dumb saying it always looked like this or?