Strange sound from rebuilt engine...
02-08-2013, 01:28 PM
#76
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I would take a step back and forget about the lifters and oil pressure... If it was not making a racket would you be worried about idle oil pressure?
It could be an ignition problem? Have you isolated one of the distributors and seen the effect of removing a plug wire? Are the distributors (meaning plug wires) in sync? I assume that you may have replaced the wires or at least removed them from the caps... Did they get replaced in the correct position? You (we) could be hearing secondary detonation?
When I did my top end last spring I got a cam 180 out and it made a noise not unlike yours, had a somewhat smooth idle but couldn't rev for beans.
Just my $.02 worth... Good luck...
Like others suggest, I would not run it very long at a time until I decided to start over. Cam timing (indexing) can be accomplished, effectively with the engine in he car...just ask me how I know!!!
It could be an ignition problem? Have you isolated one of the distributors and seen the effect of removing a plug wire? Are the distributors (meaning plug wires) in sync? I assume that you may have replaced the wires or at least removed them from the caps... Did they get replaced in the correct position? You (we) could be hearing secondary detonation?
When I did my top end last spring I got a cam 180 out and it made a noise not unlike yours, had a somewhat smooth idle but couldn't rev for beans.
Just my $.02 worth... Good luck...
Like others suggest, I would not run it very long at a time until I decided to start over. Cam timing (indexing) can be accomplished, effectively with the engine in he car...just ask me how I know!!!
As for the wire order. I did NOT remove the wires from the caps. And I have checked the routing/order of the wires at least 4 or 5 times to rule this out. The wires are relatively new, under 1K, and worked fine prior to rebuild.
02-08-2013, 01:46 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Here are some pix from during the rebuild. The cams are correct for left right. The Cam pic is of the LEFT side. Notice the 247. Correct for left side. Allso followed the "L" and Rabbit Ears rules to be sure. Second pic is of right side FWIW. I'm off to get stethoscope....
02-08-2013, 02:04 PM
#78
I'm not reading all this, but cold weather and a rebuild... You sure it isn't lifters? What weight oil? (Thick oil + cold weather) x rebuild = lifter that will take a long time to come up.
Is the sound comming from the bottom left?
Is the sound comming from the bottom left?
02-08-2013, 02:28 PM
#79
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Hi Calvin,
Read through the thread - there are a series of problems being identified, like oil pressures, the noise, heat, etc. Lifter have been discussed and are not off the table as a source - the question is there an issue around pressurization that is greater than the lifters itself, and possible related to low oil pressure.
Peter is going to try to isolate the location of the sound which will give us a better clue as to valve train or chains.
He has run it a few times to full operating temperature, it may still be possible that the lifters are not pressurizing just due to being stubborn, but its not clear.
He is also in California, but not sure where to see how much temperature is impacting this. I am sure he will respond.
Cheers,
Mike
Read through the thread - there are a series of problems being identified, like oil pressures, the noise, heat, etc. Lifter have been discussed and are not off the table as a source - the question is there an issue around pressurization that is greater than the lifters itself, and possible related to low oil pressure.
Peter is going to try to isolate the location of the sound which will give us a better clue as to valve train or chains.
He has run it a few times to full operating temperature, it may still be possible that the lifters are not pressurizing just due to being stubborn, but its not clear.
He is also in California, but not sure where to see how much temperature is impacting this. I am sure he will respond.
Cheers,
Mike
02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
#80
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Have stethoscope. Will report back soon.
The Doctor.
02-08-2013, 03:34 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
All I can tell you is that I am here for moral support. I have been in this situation with everything from cars to computers to HVAC.
Hoping it turns out well for you.
Hoping it turns out well for you.
02-08-2013, 04:19 PM
#82
Peter, I would be surprised if it didn't make all that racket considering the conditions.
20-50 oil
50 degrees OAT
Lifters being out of service for an extended period.
It's going to take more then idling the car to operating temp.
Drive it, for 20 minutes with the Baby gloves off.
I just experienced this same condition with a friends car here in AZ last weekend. The 20-50 was literally pouring like syrup on a cold to "us" day. Lifters would not pump up on the oil top off procedure at operating temp. His motor was out for about a month. I believe the lifters have a hard time accepting 20-50 but they will with a good drive.
As far as break in, we used to redline RSR motors on the dyno the moment they hit operating temp. The way these motors are built and coated it isn't an issue.
20-50 oil
50 degrees OAT
Lifters being out of service for an extended period.
It's going to take more then idling the car to operating temp.
Drive it, for 20 minutes with the Baby gloves off.
I just experienced this same condition with a friends car here in AZ last weekend. The 20-50 was literally pouring like syrup on a cold to "us" day. Lifters would not pump up on the oil top off procedure at operating temp. His motor was out for about a month. I believe the lifters have a hard time accepting 20-50 but they will with a good drive.
As far as break in, we used to redline RSR motors on the dyno the moment they hit operating temp. The way these motors are built and coated it isn't an issue.
02-08-2013, 05:45 PM
#83
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I honestly could not have done anything to my car without the support of all the truly wonderful people here. This is truly a great place.
Having said all that I am remaining positive and trying to be objective. Step by step, even if I have to rebuild it all over again I will get it done. I will get the best of this machine.
02-08-2013, 05:52 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Peter,
You def do not have the cams backwards because that would be apparent when you go to add the PS gear back on right side 4-6 bank. I would not run this until you have checked it a bit further. It would be really depressing to damage it when your so close to getting it right.
You def do not have the cams backwards because that would be apparent when you go to add the PS gear back on right side 4-6 bank. I would not run this until you have checked it a bit further. It would be really depressing to damage it when your so close to getting it right.
02-08-2013, 05:59 PM
#85
Have you tried driving the car just down the block? I know it's a big risk, but it may tell you something???
I'd imagine if it's mis-timing, there would be no power or it woudn't run right.
Or if the lifters didn't pump up, it would be noisy but otherwise work fine.
Comment???
I'd imagine if it's mis-timing, there would be no power or it woudn't run right.
Or if the lifters didn't pump up, it would be noisy but otherwise work fine.
Comment???
02-08-2013, 06:06 PM
#86
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Mid-day Update - The Drama Continues:
So, here I am, ready to go with stethoscope in one hand and compression tester in the other. I decide to do compression first. Hose goes in to Cyl. 2. Fuel pump relay removed. Coil wires disengaged. I turn the car over and read the dial. 95 PSI.
This seems off so I check to make sure I have the hose fully threaded in. I turn it clockwise. It spins. Aha, it is not tight. So I turn it counter-clockwise and guess what? It continues to spin. I realize now the connector is threaded into the spark plug hole and I can't get it out! The hose has lost its grip on the connector.
Fast forward two hours. I have removed the rocker panel and finally figured out that to get the connector off I need to remove the hose in order to get a socket on it. My sockets are all metric. This thing is SAE, nothing fits on it. I get out a very long pair of pliers. It wont budge. Next, I get out a 3mm t-handle allen tool and it fits perfectly in the tiny center air hole. A quick twist and it is out!
Moral of the story? Good tools cost more but they are worth it. I rented the compression tester from Autozone. It was free with deposit. Nothing is free.
Thankfully, I have a good quality hose from my leakdown kit and I can use that. Shoulda done that first. The silver lining was I was able to take pix of the cam tower. See next post....
So, here I am, ready to go with stethoscope in one hand and compression tester in the other. I decide to do compression first. Hose goes in to Cyl. 2. Fuel pump relay removed. Coil wires disengaged. I turn the car over and read the dial. 95 PSI.
This seems off so I check to make sure I have the hose fully threaded in. I turn it clockwise. It spins. Aha, it is not tight. So I turn it counter-clockwise and guess what? It continues to spin. I realize now the connector is threaded into the spark plug hole and I can't get it out! The hose has lost its grip on the connector.
Fast forward two hours. I have removed the rocker panel and finally figured out that to get the connector off I need to remove the hose in order to get a socket on it. My sockets are all metric. This thing is SAE, nothing fits on it. I get out a very long pair of pliers. It wont budge. Next, I get out a 3mm t-handle allen tool and it fits perfectly in the tiny center air hole. A quick twist and it is out!
Moral of the story? Good tools cost more but they are worth it. I rented the compression tester from Autozone. It was free with deposit. Nothing is free.
Thankfully, I have a good quality hose from my leakdown kit and I can use that. Shoulda done that first. The silver lining was I was able to take pix of the cam tower. See next post....
02-08-2013, 06:08 PM
#87
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Peter, I would be surprised if it didn't make all that racket considering the conditions.
20-50 oil
50 degrees OAT
Lifters being out of service for an extended period.
It's going to take more then idling the car to operating temp.
Drive it, for 20 minutes with the Baby gloves off.
I just experienced this same condition with a friends car here in AZ last weekend. The 20-50 was literally pouring like syrup on a cold to "us" day. Lifters would not pump up on the oil top off procedure at operating temp. His motor was out for about a month. I believe the lifters have a hard time accepting 20-50 but they will with a good drive.
As far as break in, we used to redline RSR motors on the dyno the moment they hit operating temp. The way these motors are built and coated it isn't an issue.
20-50 oil
50 degrees OAT
Lifters being out of service for an extended period.
It's going to take more then idling the car to operating temp.
Drive it, for 20 minutes with the Baby gloves off.
I just experienced this same condition with a friends car here in AZ last weekend. The 20-50 was literally pouring like syrup on a cold to "us" day. Lifters would not pump up on the oil top off procedure at operating temp. His motor was out for about a month. I believe the lifters have a hard time accepting 20-50 but they will with a good drive.
As far as break in, we used to redline RSR motors on the dyno the moment they hit operating temp. The way these motors are built and coated it isn't an issue.
02-08-2013, 06:15 PM
#88
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Have you tried driving the car just down the block? I know it's a big risk, but it may tell you something???
I'd imagine if it's mis-timing, there would be no power or it woudn't run right.
Or if the lifters didn't pump up, it would be noisy but otherwise work fine.
Comment???
I'd imagine if it's mis-timing, there would be no power or it woudn't run right.
Or if the lifters didn't pump up, it would be noisy but otherwise work fine.
Comment???
02-08-2013, 06:26 PM
#89
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ok, here are the pics with the rocker panel off. While here I will remove the rockers and inspect the lifters (I will post pictures). I will not be able to get to that until tomorrow as I have social functions tonight which will be a nice break. Anyway, here are the pix from lower 4-5-6 (exhaust):