Strange sound from rebuilt engine...
02-11-2013, 10:58 PM
#136
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Maybe I missed the answer to this issue--several pages back you showed a #2 cylinder plug that was wet and fouled. Not sure what this means in regards to the oil pressure issues; likely not connected, but still it has to mean something in regards to the way the engine is running.
02-12-2013, 02:49 AM
#137
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I have been travelling so missed a bit of the diagnosis - sounds like some progress.
If we are going with the idea of its not timing, and pressure or oil feed related, you can do a quick check of that - just take off a cam cover, take off a lifter, and crank the engine over with the DME relay pulled - you should get a nice squirt of oil out of the hole that would feed the rocker shaft.
Cheers,
Mike
If we are going with the idea of its not timing, and pressure or oil feed related, you can do a quick check of that - just take off a cam cover, take off a lifter, and crank the engine over with the DME relay pulled - you should get a nice squirt of oil out of the hole that would feed the rocker shaft.
Cheers,
Mike
02-12-2013, 12:34 PM
#138
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have been travelling so missed a bit of the diagnosis - sounds like some progress.
If we are going with the idea of its not timing, and pressure or oil feed related, you can do a quick check of that - just take off a cam cover, take off a lifter, and crank the engine over with the DME relay pulled - you should get a nice squirt of oil out of the hole that would feed the rocker shaft.
Cheers,
Mike
If we are going with the idea of its not timing, and pressure or oil feed related, you can do a quick check of that - just take off a cam cover, take off a lifter, and crank the engine over with the DME relay pulled - you should get a nice squirt of oil out of the hole that would feed the rocker shaft.
Cheers,
Mike
What do you think about the left chain housing being full of oil when cold and looking through the chain tensioner retaining cap hole. That seemed odd to me but I really don't know. See post #117 on page 8.
02-12-2013, 01:24 PM
#139
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While travelling (just got back), I have been reading the thread via my iPhone, so its been harder to see the pictures... 
The thing is, its very unusual to take this tensioner off on an active engine, so I am not sure what it should look like. I would think the chain housings should not be full of oil - they will have oil splashing like crazy when running, but to have oil filled in the housings is not good. I cannot make it out in the picture though - is it a solid oil level at the bottom of the tensioner hole? Did you poke at it to make sure it was not a oil-film?
Looking at this picture, you would need a LOT of oil to fil this up -
You can always drain the sump to see how much you have in the engine- you should get a 1/2 litre or so. If you get a few liters, then there may be an issue on the return side getting oil back to the tank. Excessive oil in the sump would cause all kinds of issues.
I have been trying to think of what oil-circuits you might have touched during your rebuild just to see if we can think of something. The fact that an oil-blockage or issue could cause the symptoms you are seeing (noise lifters) makes it more of an avenue to explore. The darkened plugs indicated also bad combustion, which may be possible if the valve train is not working properly.
Ok, so you dropped the engine, and did the heads. We might need more details, be you likely worked with but have you checked all these to make sure no kinks, blockages or problems exist? (not sure how to check some of these...):
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
- case venting hoses
- oil filters
Do a quick check of the oil level in the sump by draining it at the sump drain, at the most you should lose just a bit of oil. If its a lot, that might indicated an issue.
Cheers,
Mike
-
The thing is, its very unusual to take this tensioner off on an active engine, so I am not sure what it should look like. I would think the chain housings should not be full of oil - they will have oil splashing like crazy when running, but to have oil filled in the housings is not good. I cannot make it out in the picture though - is it a solid oil level at the bottom of the tensioner hole? Did you poke at it to make sure it was not a oil-film?
Looking at this picture, you would need a LOT of oil to fil this up -
You can always drain the sump to see how much you have in the engine- you should get a 1/2 litre or so. If you get a few liters, then there may be an issue on the return side getting oil back to the tank. Excessive oil in the sump would cause all kinds of issues.
I have been trying to think of what oil-circuits you might have touched during your rebuild just to see if we can think of something. The fact that an oil-blockage or issue could cause the symptoms you are seeing (noise lifters) makes it more of an avenue to explore. The darkened plugs indicated also bad combustion, which may be possible if the valve train is not working properly.
Ok, so you dropped the engine, and did the heads. We might need more details, be you likely worked with but have you checked all these to make sure no kinks, blockages or problems exist? (not sure how to check some of these...):
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
- case venting hoses
- oil filters
Do a quick check of the oil level in the sump by draining it at the sump drain, at the most you should lose just a bit of oil. If its a lot, that might indicated an issue.
Cheers,
Mike
-
02-12-2013, 01:25 PM
#140
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oil
You know the tensioner are different. The left side has the longer tit and the right side the shorter. I believe the left side is also taller. You need to check. I really think this is your problem. Did you know this?
02-12-2013, 01:25 PM
#141
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Not sure if this is helpful. I certainly can not makes heads or tales out of it. Any audio guys out there? This is the sound spectrum from the video from 9.8 seconds thru 11.1 seconds
02-12-2013, 01:50 PM
#142
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have confirmed the left side tensioner is the longer one and is in the proper orientation. I guess my next step will be to open up the right side and make sure that tensioner is pointing in the right direction.
02-12-2013, 01:55 PM
#143
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
While travelling (just got back), I have been reading the thread via my iPhone, so its been harder to see the pictures...
The thing is, its very unusual to take this tensioner off on an active engine, so I am not sure what it should look like. I would think the chain housings should not be full of oil - they will have oil splashing like crazy when running, but to have oil filled in the housings is not good. I cannot make it out in the picture though - is it a solid oil level at the bottom of the tensioner hole? Did you poke at it to make sure it was not a oil-film?
Looking at this picture, you would need a LOT of oil to fil this up -
You can always drain the sump to see how much you have in the engine- you should get a 1/2 litre or so. If you get a few liters, then there may be an issue on the return side getting oil back to the tank. Excessive oil in the sump would cause all kinds of issues.
I have been trying to think of what oil-circuits you might have touched during your rebuild just to see if we can think of something. The fact that an oil-blockage or issue could cause the symptoms you are seeing (noise lifters) makes it more of an avenue to explore. The darkened plugs indicated also bad combustion, which may be possible if the valve train is not working properly.
Ok, so you dropped the engine, and did the heads. We might need more details, be you likely worked with but have you checked all these to make sure no kinks, blockages or problems exist? (not sure how to check some of these...):
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
- case venting hoses
- oil filters
Do a quick check of the oil level in the sump by draining it at the sump drain, at the most you should lose just a bit of oil. If its a lot, that might indicated an issue.
Cheers,
Mike
-
The thing is, its very unusual to take this tensioner off on an active engine, so I am not sure what it should look like. I would think the chain housings should not be full of oil - they will have oil splashing like crazy when running, but to have oil filled in the housings is not good. I cannot make it out in the picture though - is it a solid oil level at the bottom of the tensioner hole? Did you poke at it to make sure it was not a oil-film?
Looking at this picture, you would need a LOT of oil to fil this up -
You can always drain the sump to see how much you have in the engine- you should get a 1/2 litre or so. If you get a few liters, then there may be an issue on the return side getting oil back to the tank. Excessive oil in the sump would cause all kinds of issues.
I have been trying to think of what oil-circuits you might have touched during your rebuild just to see if we can think of something. The fact that an oil-blockage or issue could cause the symptoms you are seeing (noise lifters) makes it more of an avenue to explore. The darkened plugs indicated also bad combustion, which may be possible if the valve train is not working properly.
Ok, so you dropped the engine, and did the heads. We might need more details, be you likely worked with but have you checked all these to make sure no kinks, blockages or problems exist? (not sure how to check some of these...):
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
- case venting hoses
- oil filters
Do a quick check of the oil level in the sump by draining it at the sump drain, at the most you should lose just a bit of oil. If its a lot, that might indicated an issue.
Cheers,
Mike
-
02-12-2013, 02:00 PM
#144
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Oil tensioner right (bank 4-6), oil supply bore points down, the spring retainers are marked with "oben" (top) and "uten rechts" bottom right.
Oil tensioner left (bank 1-3), oil supply bore points, spring cups are also marked "top" and "RH Bottom".
Cheers,
Mike
02-12-2013, 02:36 PM
#145
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yeah, this could cause oil pressure problems and loss of pressure to the lifters, given its all on the same circuit. Worth checking for sure, but I think he already did.
Oil tensioner right (bank 4-6), oil supply bore points down, the spring retainers are marked with "oben" (top) and "uten rechts" bottom right.
Oil tensioner left (bank 1-3), oil supply bore points, spring cups are also marked "top" and "RH Bottom".
Cheers,
Mike
Oil tensioner right (bank 4-6), oil supply bore points down, the spring retainers are marked with "oben" (top) and "uten rechts" bottom right.
Oil tensioner left (bank 1-3), oil supply bore points, spring cups are also marked "top" and "RH Bottom".
Cheers,
Mike
02-12-2013, 03:18 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Peter,
If the case is filling with oil you should check to make sure the soft line leaving the engine by the axle is not crimped or restricted. I have even seen someone forget to remove a plug placed on the line to the front cooler and put a hose right over it during reinstall. I would also consider changing the oil pressure relief valve and oil pressure regulator. They are not to hard to get to and if the relief valve sticks open you get low pressure and oil dumped back into the case. (see the diagram I posted prior). Pull the drain plug from the bottom and see how much oil comes out. You can always put it back in if it's perfect.
If the case is filling with oil you should check to make sure the soft line leaving the engine by the axle is not crimped or restricted. I have even seen someone forget to remove a plug placed on the line to the front cooler and put a hose right over it during reinstall. I would also consider changing the oil pressure relief valve and oil pressure regulator. They are not to hard to get to and if the relief valve sticks open you get low pressure and oil dumped back into the case. (see the diagram I posted prior). Pull the drain plug from the bottom and see how much oil comes out. You can always put it back in if it's perfect.
02-12-2013, 03:20 PM
#147
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sounds similar to what I said -
Like the idea of checking if the pressure relief is getting stuck - but checking the oil level in the sump first makes sense...
Cheers,
Mike
Like the idea of checking if the pressure relief is getting stuck - but checking the oil level in the sump first makes sense...
Cheers,
Mike
02-12-2013, 03:27 PM
#148
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^^^^agreed and an easy check. Lots of oil then it's not getting out. That would mean low pressure at the sensor, lack of oil at the cams and a pond in the bottom end.
02-12-2013, 06:14 PM
#149
Three Wheelin'
I feel the frustration that you be going through!!!!
May you get to a good solution soon!!!!
There are no short cuts, just the right fix.
Good Luck!!!!!
May you get to a good solution soon!!!!
There are no short cuts, just the right fix.
Good Luck!!!!!
02-12-2013, 08:06 PM
#150
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Quick Update.
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
Visual Inspection. Looks OK.
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
Visual Inspection. Looks OK.
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
I removed the left hand oil bridge and cranked the engine. Oil is coming out of the chain housing where it connects to the bridge. I will check right side after I chain chain tensioner on right.
- case venting hoses
Three breather hosed from oil tank to engine/throttle all check out.
- oil filters
Not sure what to check - when I drain the oil I will remove and inspect.
- the oil feed line from the tank to the pump inlet on the case
Visual Inspection. Looks OK.
- the oil return line from the case back to the tank
Visual Inspection. Looks OK.
- the oil bridge for the cam carrier
I removed the left hand oil bridge and cranked the engine. Oil is coming out of the chain housing where it connects to the bridge. I will check right side after I chain chain tensioner on right.
- case venting hoses
Three breather hosed from oil tank to engine/throttle all check out.
- oil filters
Not sure what to check - when I drain the oil I will remove and inspect.