Ok. So I am now just over 57k miles on my 96 C4S and purchased it without much of a service history about 18 months ago. I am getting an intermittent CEL for misfires (300/1/2/3/4/5/6). I’m thinking I should just go ahead and take care of the full 60K service + Ignition wires now (I’ve had a look, lots of cracking in the wire bends, some worse than others). Hopefully rotors/caps/plugs/wires will solve the issue, and it will need to be done soon anyway.

Also, indy suggests clutch replacement and I have to agree. Started to experience some slipping in the clutch under load between 3-4k RPM in 2nd and 3rd gear. The engagement point is almost all the way out, and I get a knotchy feel when depressing the pedal. Thus I think it’s about time for a new clutch. I believe the clutch to be original to the car. Important to note I live in Manhattan and deal with a fair amount of traffic, even though I only really drive it at off hours and only as a pleasure vehicle, just to get out of the city requires stop and go. Oh, and also, I park in a garage where I have to leave the car with an attendant and they (there are 4 different attendants) park + move the car as necessary. I am looking for an alternative where I can park+lock myself, but hard to come by in NYC. So the clutch has seen its fair share of drivers and parkers. -sorry for the rant. less than ideal situation.

So, the question is; Engine out or just transmission out for the 60k+wires+clutch? (i know its possible with trans only, but if price is same. . .) I have been quoted about same price for each method, as the 60k service/wires is less time with engine out, but engine out process takes longer. In the end, same price for each method. This will be performed by a trusted indy. I don’t have the physical resources + time to try to tackle this myself, even though I would absolutely love to and intend to do so once I am properly situated years down the road.

Alignment is necessary, so will be performed regardless of the method chosen.

With engine out I (my indy) can much more easily do preventative:

1) Power steering belt replacement.

2) Engine pad is sagging. I’m thinking remove or replace. I’ve seen the DIY solution of a cut piece of aluminum to hold it in place, but if the engine is out . . . .

3) No significant seeping in the valve cover gaskets nor the timing chain gasket. Should I replace anyway?

4) Golden rod at this point? Not really interested in the short shift kit at this time I don’t think. Thoughts?

5) Any other suggestions on preventative and/or upgrades at this point?

6) Should I replace SAI check valve at this time?

I’ve done hours of rennlist research on this subject and this post hopefully reflects that time. But I know I will miss some things. Still hoping for some experienced insight.

No LWF for me. (even though I have read extensively on merits)

No suspension work at this time. Tackle that project next.

60k service

Spark Plugs
Fuel Filter
Air Filter
Oil Filter Bosch
Oil Filter Bosch
Washer
Bosch CAP
Bosch Rotor
Pollen Filter
Engine Oil
Trans Oil
Alt Belt
Fan Belt
A/C Belt


Beru Ignition Wires


Replace clutch

Clutch Kit
Machine existing dual mass flywheel
Flywheel Bolt (9)
Upgraded Clutch Fork Shaft Kit

Will inspect and do following as necessary
Clutch Slave Cylinder hose
Valve cover gaskets and bolts
Timing chain gaskets
Change ignition coil wire

 

Forgot - thread is worthless without. . . .

excuse SUV ride height.

 

Plugs, wires, clutch, gaskets and ps belt are all easier with the engine out. I'm not familiar with the complications of the AWD hardware though. If the costs were close I would vote for engine out. Are you sure you can resurface DMF flywheels?

 

Laura at Hergesheimer recommended replacing the SAI valve every time a major repair is done, and said that is the best preventive maintenance against a carbon buildup. So yes on SAI.

I'm a believer of while the engine is out let's do XYZ, as long as the recommendation is from a reputable marque specialist.

 

Everything you say makes sense. I'd replace the valve cover, timing chain gaskets, rear main seal, and oil sending unit. Who's your indy?

Golden rod is awesome! I just had mine installed this sprint and love it!

Where in Manhattan do you park the car? Based on your parking situation I'd advise against a LWF. I have one in mine but I doubt a parking attendant will learn its subtleties...

 

1) Yes
2) Replace with a new OEM pad. No reason to mess around w/anything else if the engine is out.
3) Definitely have them replace the timing chain cover gaskets (and the bolt grommets of course). Replacing the gaskets later is a real pain w/engine in... Definitely do it while the engine is out. The VC gaskets are not such a pain w/engine in, but they are cheap, so just get them done now.
4) I did the GR only w/o SSK... very nice upgrade in shift feel - definitely worthwhile. But I must say I find myself wondering about whether I should have done the SSK too.
5) Replace the oil temp & pressure sending units along with the gasket for the unit that holds them (top
of the crank case behind/under the VarioRam - total pain when the engine is in. Also have them check the vacum hoses and actuator valves for the VR - replace any that are looking questionable.
6) Replace the SAI valve - since you don't have detailed records, it could be old. Not tough to change it later w/engine back in, but you'd may as well get it done while the engine is out.

 

Given you have AWD and are doing the clutch, the engine is going to be nearly all the way out, with all the mechanicals disconnected since you have to deal with the torque tube. Not much more work to disconnect the hoses and electrical to get it completely out. And all the gaskets, chain covers, etc are much easier then on an engine stand.

 

Thanks to all who replied with feedback on this subject. She's going in tomorrow for absolutely everything that was hinted at or suggested above. General concensus seems to be a reasonable one, that while we're in there, do everything while it is accessible.

Goldenrod included

Thanks again. Will reply with full list of parts and thoughts after I get the car back in a couple weeks. Considering I purchased with only minimal documentation about 2 years and 5k miles ago, I will be happy to have all these items definitively sorted.

Jon

 

Are there any other cars, apart from Porsche and Ferrari, where the owner would contemplate [nay, be happy to] pull out the engine and spend thousands in 'maintenance' at 60,000 miles?

FYI - i have a 1884 BMW 318i [1/4 the price of a Porsche] which has been flogged for thousands of miles, the present mileage is over 400.000. It runs fine and burns no oil and i do not anticipate pulling the engine out to do anything. Nor does it need 12 quarts of oil and 2 oil filters to be changed every 2000 to 5000 miles as some 993 owners do!

Yes, i know it doesn't thrill like a 993 does, so...........................

 

All good stuff to consider. My only thought is that it is unfortunate you have to do your clutch at 60K as if it was 80 or 90K it may have been the last time anyone would have to do it. If you lifter cartridges are quiet and they appear to not have been changed in the past they will visit you with loud clacking in 30k miles or so as the seal failure on them seems to be partially age related.

Andy

 

Jon,

Beautiful car...good luck with the maintenance job. Did a C2S last year with just about everything on your list...and they found a few while you're in there things....a fan bearing and some brittle wiring harnesses (those Porsche OEM spark plug harnesses were very expensive)....having driven NYC and Manhattan roads in on a lowered suspension, I'd keep the ride height your car is sitting at.

 

I test drove a 993 just last month with a LFW and I didn't care for it at all. But that's me.

Can you slip the parking attendant an extra $5 to put the car in the back so it's not moved so much? That would drive me batty.

I suggest that you tell the mechanic what you want done, and let him decide if he'd rather drop the engine or not, whichever is cheapest when all is said and done.

 

I just got my 60k done.

BTW I think Steve Weiner is going to come out with a mid-weight flywheel shortly. Cuts the difference between the LWF and the standard dual mass.

 

Thats good that Steve may come out with a MFW---its probably a better alternative than the well known problematic LWF for 70%+ of the 95's on the street with the stalling issue. I will apporach the flywheel cautiously the next time a clutch replacement comes around (if I still have my 95) but I will not be a Guinea Pig. Enough pain, suffering, and frustration, the first time around with an impulse LWF purhcase with not much research and thought I just had to have one. Of course, that was 9 years ago when I did the LWF upgrade and the pain and suffering is gone but the frustration still lingers a little when that every so often stall comes around.

 

Had to post because your car is beautiful!
Keep us posted!