double-down shifting
#16
Rennlist Member
I double-clutch downshift and upshift on the street almost all of the time and have been doing it for so long that I don't even think about it. I actually had to check to make sure that I am still doing it, and, yup, I sure am. It's a lost art and is so much easier on the synchros, and there's a great satisfaction feeling the shift lever just slide into gear, the tach needle not moving a millimeter, indicating a perfect rev match.
On the track where 1/100ths of a second count, I usually don't double clutch.
On the track where 1/100ths of a second count, I usually don't double clutch.
#18
Three Wheelin'
Another reason. A race clutch is either on or off. There's very little slipping of the disks. Therefore shifting without blipping the throttle will lock up the rear end and if you’re unlucky enough spinning you in a corner.
#19
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ludicrous Speed ^thanks Dan McBoost for pic^
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There is nothing wrong with a double downshift - when properly executed - which can / should include some of the ^^above concepts^^ 8-).
Heck, I employ all sorts 'o shifting oddities... triple downshift, quadruple upshift, etc. Depends on the circumstance. Long as you get it right it's no problem... just get it right.
I wasn't going to reply, but found myself doing this yestderday... meandering down a backroad, gliding along in 6th (oil pressure never <2.5!), car afront me turns off - I rev match into 3rd and WOT off I go.
Sometimes in heavy traffic, I'll start in 1st, maybe grab 2nd to bring R's up... then grab 6th. I tend to try to balance fuel economy via these opps when I can, helps offset all the WOT and trip-digi's 8-).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for 'not good for synchros' and 'are you quintuple clutching'... but... I've had mannnny hundred thousand miles in mannnnny stick cars... never any trans issues ever.
just sayin 8-)
Paul
CT
past: '87 930 | '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6spd | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Heck, I employ all sorts 'o shifting oddities... triple downshift, quadruple upshift, etc. Depends on the circumstance. Long as you get it right it's no problem... just get it right.
I wasn't going to reply, but found myself doing this yestderday... meandering down a backroad, gliding along in 6th (oil pressure never <2.5!), car afront me turns off - I rev match into 3rd and WOT off I go.
Sometimes in heavy traffic, I'll start in 1st, maybe grab 2nd to bring R's up... then grab 6th. I tend to try to balance fuel economy via these opps when I can, helps offset all the WOT and trip-digi's 8-).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for 'not good for synchros' and 'are you quintuple clutching'... but... I've had mannnny hundred thousand miles in mannnnny stick cars... never any trans issues ever.
just sayin 8-)
Paul
CT
past: '87 930 | '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6spd | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
#20
Rennlist Member
There is nothing wrong with a double downshift - when properly executed - which can / should include some of the ^^above concepts^^ 8-).
Heck, I employ all sorts 'o shifting oddities... triple downshift, quadruple upshift, etc. Depends on the circumstance. Long as you get it right it's no problem... just get it right.
I wasn't going to reply, but found myself doing this yestderday... meandering down a backroad, gliding along in 6th (oil pressure never <2.5!), car afront me turns off - I rev match into 3rd and WOT off I go.
Sometimes in heavy traffic, I'll start in 1st, maybe grab 2nd to bring R's up... then grab 6th. I tend to try to balance fuel economy via these opps when I can, helps offset all the WOT and trip-digi's 8-).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for 'not good for synchros' and 'are you quintuple clutching'... but... I've had mannnny hundred thousand miles in mannnnny stick cars... never any trans issues ever.
just sayin 8-)
Heck, I employ all sorts 'o shifting oddities... triple downshift, quadruple upshift, etc. Depends on the circumstance. Long as you get it right it's no problem... just get it right.
I wasn't going to reply, but found myself doing this yestderday... meandering down a backroad, gliding along in 6th (oil pressure never <2.5!), car afront me turns off - I rev match into 3rd and WOT off I go.
Sometimes in heavy traffic, I'll start in 1st, maybe grab 2nd to bring R's up... then grab 6th. I tend to try to balance fuel economy via these opps when I can, helps offset all the WOT and trip-digi's 8-).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for 'not good for synchros' and 'are you quintuple clutching'... but... I've had mannnny hundred thousand miles in mannnnny stick cars... never any trans issues ever.
just sayin 8-)
#21
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ludicrous Speed ^thanks Dan McBoost for pic^
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sorry for the confusion Mark - first I misread the OP (unless he edited it from when I'd first read it yesterday??? Really didn't think he'd ref'd the clutching part when he'd first posted...) I'd initially thought it'd just asked about double downshifting, then I replied, THEN noted his reference to the double-clutching aspect - so I had to edit my reply 8-/.
D'oh.
Then I was merely saying I'll skip gears - shift direct (one clutch) from say 2nd to 6th, or downshift (rev matched) from 6th to 3rd... maybe even 2nd in the right situ 8-).
basically, just disregard my idiocy and you'll be better served!
Paul
CT
past: '87 930 | '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6spd | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
D'oh.
Then I was merely saying I'll skip gears - shift direct (one clutch) from say 2nd to 6th, or downshift (rev matched) from 6th to 3rd... maybe even 2nd in the right situ 8-).
basically, just disregard my idiocy and you'll be better served!
Paul
CT
past: '87 930 | '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6spd | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
#23
Nordschleife Master
I often skip a gear in my Scion, but NEVER in Rufus. Why? Because of the pure joy of shifting and the wonderful sounds it makes on each gear change. I simply can't help myself.
#24
Instructor
Great post guys.
I always heel & toe when downshifting and knew what double clutch was but did not know that even with a modern synchronized gearbox you can reduce wear & tear by double clutching.
I’ll try to give it a go from now on...
I always heel & toe when downshifting and knew what double clutch was but did not know that even with a modern synchronized gearbox you can reduce wear & tear by double clutching.
I’ll try to give it a go from now on...
#27
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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Here's another trick to save your first gear synchro: I assume that at signals you are putting the gearbox in neutral and releasing the clutch (saving wear on the throw-out bearing). When the light changes, engage 5th or 6th gear before you select 1st gear. Selecting those higher gears will stop the input shaft, allowing you to select first gear with very little pressure on the lever. The synchros on those higher gears wear very little.
#28
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Here's another trick to save your first gear synchro: I assume that at signals you are putting the gearbox in neutral and releasing the clutch (saving wear on the throw-out bearing). When the light changes, engage 5th or 6th gear before you select 1st gear. Selecting those higher gears will stop the input shaft, allowing you to select first gear with very little pressure on the lever. The synchros on those higher gears wear very little.
#29
Nordschleife Master
By "engage" do you mean actually get the car moving from a stop (release the clutch) in 5th or 6th gear or just move the stick into the 5/6 position on the same clutch depression as your 1st gear shift ? Sorry, just wanted to be clear before I potentially grind out a pound of tranny metal