Love my car, hate my current A/C (& other problems). Is our A/C this expensive 2 fix?
09-23-2012, 08:47 AM
#62
There are a few Preventive Maintenance steps you can do that 'could' help save bucks down the road, especially on any car that is over 10 years old for sure, for example:
Compressor Crash -
Most compressors can last up to 100,000 miles easily if properly serviced. Over 100k its time to budget for a replacement.
If the a/c system is neglected, either because of lack of knowledge of a/c, or if your trying to be skimpy or lazy, a compressor crash can be very expensive ... at least a low four figure bill $x,xxx.
When a compressor locks up, seizes, grenades.... metal particles are pushed through out the entire system. The "proper" fix includes a liquid a/c flush of the entire system. This means removing the evaporator, removing the expansion valve and cleaning the evaporator (flushing) it, disconnecting the lines to the condenser and flushing it, removing and discarding the old compressor with clutch, receiver drier, o-rings, refrigerant oil, refrigerant, liquid flushing all the a/c lines, and then new compressor, drier, expansion valve, o-rings refrigerant oil, refrigerant and labor. You got the time to do this?
What can cause a compressor to crash? Lack of attention to the a/c system is the most common cause. For example, the a/c is not blowing cold, you determine through wisdom (reading forums) that the reason is it is low on refrigerant. You stop by the brick and mortar auto parts store and get one of those nifty refrigerant cans with the handy dandy single gauge and line, take out your bifocals and attempt to read the instructions and naturally toss them away because of the 4pt font size. You have no idea of what your doing, so your going to approach this like its your 'first time'.. just plug it in and see what happens.. lol. But, lets stop here. Why is the system low on refrigerant? Where is the leak? So even if you manage to push in a can or 2 of refrigerant 'to get your through the season' did you remember to add oil? Are you running the system, still, with not enough refrigerant and hence the compressor does not get enough refrigerant/oil flow to keep it lubricated? Were you naive enough to buy something that had a liquid 'sealant' in it and now you are unknowingly plugging up the expansion valve and causing further damage by running with too low low side pressures, or is the sealant now plugging up the pressure switches (all alike a client's car now in our shop because his mechanic was naive).
So, how could you have turned more a manageable $500 repair bill into a $3000+ bill? This happens all the time...
A) You bought a car that is over 10 years old an "assumed" because the make on the emblem on the hood is a 'good' brand, it never needs attention.
B) You had all the service records in the folder when you got the car but you never spent the time to read over the history.
C) You were trying to save bucks, you spent all your money on a 'car' but never gave a rational thought with regard to yearly maintenance costs.... (do 30 year shingles on a roof really last 30 years?).
D) The inspection you paid for before you bought the car disregarded the a/c system.
E) You always wanted to have the respect of an engineer, but you ended up selling real estate, junk bonds or became a doctor, so instead you bought a sports car and played 'enginear' on weekends so you could sit at the coffee shop and verbalized what you read on the net.
F) You habitually try to take the short cut and end up shooting yourself in the foot.
So, how could you potentially save $3000+ in the future?
1) If the system is low on refrigerant, find and fix the leaks.
2) If you don't know how much oil is the system, then add extra for safe measure, here more is better than less in preventing a fatality.
3) If you have all of the service records, instead of watching the ball game this weekend, read the records, make notes, ask questions.
4) If your car has a cabin filter, change it.
5) If you can't figure it out, find a good mechanic, pay him for his opinion, and sometimes 2 opinions are worth it.
You know regular engine oil and filter changes extend the life of an engine.
You know that having a good alignment and proper tire inflation not only keeps the car on track but can extend the life of your tires.
You know when the a/c does not work on those nice summer days your car is simply a garage queen.
So, know you know just a little bit more about your a/c, so invest the time wisely.
Compressor Crash -
Most compressors can last up to 100,000 miles easily if properly serviced. Over 100k its time to budget for a replacement.
If the a/c system is neglected, either because of lack of knowledge of a/c, or if your trying to be skimpy or lazy, a compressor crash can be very expensive ... at least a low four figure bill $x,xxx.
When a compressor locks up, seizes, grenades.... metal particles are pushed through out the entire system. The "proper" fix includes a liquid a/c flush of the entire system. This means removing the evaporator, removing the expansion valve and cleaning the evaporator (flushing) it, disconnecting the lines to the condenser and flushing it, removing and discarding the old compressor with clutch, receiver drier, o-rings, refrigerant oil, refrigerant, liquid flushing all the a/c lines, and then new compressor, drier, expansion valve, o-rings refrigerant oil, refrigerant and labor. You got the time to do this?
What can cause a compressor to crash? Lack of attention to the a/c system is the most common cause. For example, the a/c is not blowing cold, you determine through wisdom (reading forums) that the reason is it is low on refrigerant. You stop by the brick and mortar auto parts store and get one of those nifty refrigerant cans with the handy dandy single gauge and line, take out your bifocals and attempt to read the instructions and naturally toss them away because of the 4pt font size. You have no idea of what your doing, so your going to approach this like its your 'first time'.. just plug it in and see what happens.. lol. But, lets stop here. Why is the system low on refrigerant? Where is the leak? So even if you manage to push in a can or 2 of refrigerant 'to get your through the season' did you remember to add oil? Are you running the system, still, with not enough refrigerant and hence the compressor does not get enough refrigerant/oil flow to keep it lubricated? Were you naive enough to buy something that had a liquid 'sealant' in it and now you are unknowingly plugging up the expansion valve and causing further damage by running with too low low side pressures, or is the sealant now plugging up the pressure switches (all alike a client's car now in our shop because his mechanic was naive).
So, how could you have turned more a manageable $500 repair bill into a $3000+ bill? This happens all the time...
A) You bought a car that is over 10 years old an "assumed" because the make on the emblem on the hood is a 'good' brand, it never needs attention.
B) You had all the service records in the folder when you got the car but you never spent the time to read over the history.
C) You were trying to save bucks, you spent all your money on a 'car' but never gave a rational thought with regard to yearly maintenance costs.... (do 30 year shingles on a roof really last 30 years?).
D) The inspection you paid for before you bought the car disregarded the a/c system.
E) You always wanted to have the respect of an engineer, but you ended up selling real estate, junk bonds or became a doctor, so instead you bought a sports car and played 'enginear' on weekends so you could sit at the coffee shop and verbalized what you read on the net.
F) You habitually try to take the short cut and end up shooting yourself in the foot.
So, how could you potentially save $3000+ in the future?
1) If the system is low on refrigerant, find and fix the leaks.
2) If you don't know how much oil is the system, then add extra for safe measure, here more is better than less in preventing a fatality.
3) If you have all of the service records, instead of watching the ball game this weekend, read the records, make notes, ask questions.
4) If your car has a cabin filter, change it.
5) If you can't figure it out, find a good mechanic, pay him for his opinion, and sometimes 2 opinions are worth it.
You know regular engine oil and filter changes extend the life of an engine.
You know that having a good alignment and proper tire inflation not only keeps the car on track but can extend the life of your tires.
You know when the a/c does not work on those nice summer days your car is simply a garage queen.
So, know you know just a little bit more about your a/c, so invest the time wisely.
09-23-2012, 12:10 PM
#63
Drifting
Griffiths, do you recommend changing the coolant at periodic intervals?
The worry I have with my car is that it is stored about 6 months a year, and I can't operate the AC then, to keep the system lubricated. With our DDs, I wait for a warm day and run the AC for a few minutes.
The way I see this situation is that we have specialty cars and we employ specialists to service them. But A/C work is a sub specialty in the automotive world, and our specialists may be generalists in terms of A/C work. On the other hand, an A/C subspecialist may be a generalist in terms of working on Porsches.
In the medical community, there are specialists who sub specialize in certain areas, i.e. an opththalmologist who is a glaucoma sub-specialist, but do we have many of these in the automotive world maybe thare are only a few guys around who are really up to diagnosing a tricky Porsche A/C problem?
The worry I have with my car is that it is stored about 6 months a year, and I can't operate the AC then, to keep the system lubricated. With our DDs, I wait for a warm day and run the AC for a few minutes.
I have to get this fixed...Steve 96C4S
In the medical community, there are specialists who sub specialize in certain areas, i.e. an opththalmologist who is a glaucoma sub-specialist, but do we have many of these in the automotive world maybe thare are only a few guys around who are really up to diagnosing a tricky Porsche A/C problem?
09-23-2012, 01:00 PM
#64
Griffiths, do you recommend changing the coolant at periodic intervals?
The worry I have with my car is that it is stored about 6 months a year, and I can't operate the AC then, to keep the system lubricated. With our DDs, I wait for a warm day and run the AC for a few minutes.
The way I see this situation is that we have specialty cars and we employ specialists to service them. But A/C work is a sub specialty in the automotive world, and our specialists may be generalists in terms of A/C work. On the other hand, an A/C subspecialist may be a generalist in terms of working on Porsches.
In the medical community, there are specialists who sub specialize in certain areas, i.e. an opththalmologist who is a glaucoma sub-specialist, but do we have many of these in the automotive world maybe thare are only a few guys around who are really up to diagnosing a tricky Porsche A/C problem?
The worry I have with my car is that it is stored about 6 months a year, and I can't operate the AC then, to keep the system lubricated. With our DDs, I wait for a warm day and run the AC for a few minutes.
The way I see this situation is that we have specialty cars and we employ specialists to service them. But A/C work is a sub specialty in the automotive world, and our specialists may be generalists in terms of A/C work. On the other hand, an A/C subspecialist may be a generalist in terms of working on Porsches.
In the medical community, there are specialists who sub specialize in certain areas, i.e. an opththalmologist who is a glaucoma sub-specialist, but do we have many of these in the automotive world maybe thare are only a few guys around who are really up to diagnosing a tricky Porsche A/C problem?
And then there are high percentage of practicing experts that never check for "Hypotension": BP standing, sitting and laying down.
But to answer your question;
No. You don't change the refrigerant every year, just like you don't change the air in your tires every year. Instead you would have the Pressures checked with a set of gauges on a regular basis.
And, the more common cause of leaks are simply either time on the 14-23 year old 964/993; there is always some permeation across the system; more likely the evaporator or 'old o-rings' that have lost their sealing properties, next comes the 2 hoses over the engine.
Running your system regularly does not help the o-rings ... they are an elastomer and all but one is a static seal and most of the contact surface in the joints never see refrigerant or oil, and running the system to move refrigerant and oil to the exposed surface will never change its characteristics.
Last edited by griffiths; 09-23-2012 at 02:41 PM.
09-23-2012, 07:13 PM
#65
Drifting
...to answer your question...griffiths
09-23-2012, 07:21 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
I've spent at least $3000 to fix my A/C and get it to work right in the last 5 years. South Florida is tough on A/C and after a new evaporator, receiver/dryer, expansion valve, and compressor my A/C blows as cold as my Toyota Tundra. It can be done, but you have to spend the $$$$$ AND BE PATIENT.
10-26-2012, 01:29 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I've spent at least $3000 to fix my A/C and get it to work right in the last 5 years. South Florida is tough on A/C and after a new evaporator, receiver/dryer, expansion valve, and compressor my A/C blows as cold as my Toyota Tundra. It can be done, but you have to spend the $$$$$ AND BE PATIENT.
But now I have SUPER COLD A/C. Hope it still feels super cold in the summer.
Got an A/C Evaporator at the newest shop, $460
A/C Flush Solution - $39
Labor: Receiver/Dryer $130
Labor: Evaporator Core $724
$1384 total $1118 from the other shop = $2500
He lubed my fan but it's still squealing like a pig intermittently so I'm going to have that fixed by him too. I trust this new shop the most and he's willing to drop my car off for me and pick me up to get it which is HUGE for someone with very little free time like me.
That's all folks.
Steve
10-26-2012, 02:12 AM
#68
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Could you be refering to Dan Hicks the musician? His band was/is goes by the name Dan Hick and the Hot Licks. "The Last Train to Hicksville" is great album - raod trip music if there ever was. '70s Texas swing /rock n roll.
Last edited by M. Schneider; 10-26-2012 at 03:29 PM.
10-27-2012, 05:24 PM
#71
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
too much trust in your 'indie".
To me it sounds like you put too much trust in your 'indie". Have you considered checking the heater valves and looking to see if they are closing all the way, if not hot air can be diluting the cold air from your A/C. If the servo motors on the air flaps are the problem it sometimes causes an OBDC when you run the Durametirc software. Considering the huge amount of money you have spent I would spend a little more to get the Durametric OBDC kit and run the codes before you take it in for any future service work. Also there are multiple web resources you can use for research of issues before you let a guy you are paying have at it. Even if you do not do the work it is always better to go in with your eyes wide open.
10-28-2012, 10:10 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
To me it sounds like you put too much trust in your 'indie". Have you considered checking the heater valves and looking to see if they are closing all the way, if not hot air can be diluting the cold air from your A/C. If the servo motors on the air flaps are the problem it sometimes causes an OBDC when you run the Durametirc software. Considering the huge amount of money you have spent I would spend a little more to get the Durametric OBDC kit and run the codes before you take it in for any future service work. Also there are multiple web resources you can use for research of issues before you let a guy you are paying have at it. Even if you do not do the work it is always better to go in with your eyes wide open.
