4S FS
08-21-2012, 10:36 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Goofball and others, I posted this in the other thread. Please note that errors in an ad may be pointed out. Cheap shots about what a seller is asking are not appreciated. Likewise, allegations of fraud ..well don't get me going judge-and-jury people. I also took time to explain to goofball and ilko exactly why. I notice that goofy left out that part in his post above.
In a nutshell intelligent buyers use google. Looking for a 993? I am certain they will end up here. What do they find? A number of self proclaimed market experts - who are not in the business - telling the world that an asking price is too high. Who knows what the market really is? I've seen Blue Book values on 993's double in the last 18 months or so. The bottom line is that off the cuff speculation may drive the market down to the detriment of the seller.
Finally:
For those who have forgotten, here is what John D had to say about this sort of thing back in 2007. That's for those of you who feel that policy has changed in his absence:
https://rennlist.com/forums/4038407-post16.html
Regards,
In a nutshell intelligent buyers use google. Looking for a 993? I am certain they will end up here. What do they find? A number of self proclaimed market experts - who are not in the business - telling the world that an asking price is too high. Who knows what the market really is? I've seen Blue Book values on 993's double in the last 18 months or so. The bottom line is that off the cuff speculation may drive the market down to the detriment of the seller.
Finally:
For those who have forgotten, here is what John D had to say about this sort of thing back in 2007. That's for those of you who feel that policy has changed in his absence:
https://rennlist.com/forums/4038407-post16.html
Regards,
A PM to you!
Mark
08-21-2012, 10:38 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
OK, went out after a local city Common Council meeting tonite...had a few. That being said, I personally think we've gone beyond the pale here. As mean spirited as this site has become lately, I don't think this thread is a part of it.
This is the 993 forum, we talk about everything from tires to suspension, etc here...it's all subjective, just like asking price. We should all be able to engage in a CIVIL discussion about everything 993 realated...shouldn't we?
Even pricing.
IMHO, moderators are not needed here...at least not on this thread.
Maybe it's the beer talking...
Magic Hat Elder Betty...thank you very much.
This is the 993 forum, we talk about everything from tires to suspension, etc here...it's all subjective, just like asking price. We should all be able to engage in a CIVIL discussion about everything 993 realated...shouldn't we?
Even pricing.
IMHO, moderators are not needed here...at least not on this thread.
Maybe it's the beer talking...
Magic Hat Elder Betty...thank you very much.
08-21-2012, 10:45 PM
#49
Bob,
Maybe we need some clarification regarding the rules regarding which forum one should post a For Sale thread. Over the years there have been many discussions on where to start a thread and what you can say (or not say). Other forums have very strict rules about not posting FS threads in general or technical discussion forums. And the moderators move them quickly. It makes it much cleaner.
I agree that we all should have a high level of civility towards each other (Rennlistship at its best) and not bash someone (for what ever reason). But with that said, it is time for the Rennlist gods to look at the existing rules and consider any modifications that may deem appropriate.
My suggestions.
1. For Sale threads should be in the For Sale forums. And quickly moved if not in the right place. Too many games being played.
2. For Sale threads should not have any postings other than by the seller. Does GLWS posts really add anything other than clutter. Let the seller manage the messaging.
3. Those threads which start with "thinking of selling, maybe, not sure, feeler, etc " posts should be thoroughly reviewed and deleted if the OP does not follow the rules. Are you selling or not? Ask you spouse, not us.
I appreciate the policing that you and other moderators perform. Sometimes a bit heavy handed with some and lighter with others. But necessary to make it a special place.
Mark
Maybe we need some clarification regarding the rules regarding which forum one should post a For Sale thread. Over the years there have been many discussions on where to start a thread and what you can say (or not say). Other forums have very strict rules about not posting FS threads in general or technical discussion forums. And the moderators move them quickly. It makes it much cleaner.
I agree that we all should have a high level of civility towards each other (Rennlistship at its best) and not bash someone (for what ever reason). But with that said, it is time for the Rennlist gods to look at the existing rules and consider any modifications that may deem appropriate.
My suggestions.
1. For Sale threads should be in the For Sale forums. And quickly moved if not in the right place. Too many games being played.
2. For Sale threads should not have any postings other than by the seller. Does GLWS posts really add anything other than clutter. Let the seller manage the messaging.
3. Those threads which start with "thinking of selling, maybe, not sure, feeler, etc " posts should be thoroughly reviewed and deleted if the OP does not follow the rules. Are you selling or not? Ask you spouse, not us.
I appreciate the policing that you and other moderators perform. Sometimes a bit heavy handed with some and lighter with others. But necessary to make it a special place.
Mark
post of the week ^ Mods are you listening??
08-21-2012, 10:53 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
So the unintended consequence of this will be that someone sees a 993 for sale in the appropriate section, let's say a Putrid Chartreuse over Chestnut Brown (hey, if I can't get a dig in on my own interior color.......), 11 owner, 238K+ original, verified mile 2S Tiptronic for a $299,999 ask and then posts a thread here in this forum commenting about the car.
Now what happens?
Now what happens?
Now what happens? Not a thing! What you describe is what I understood to be the rules. Post FS in the For Sale Forum. No negative commentaries about price, condition, etc. In fact, there should be no comments permitted period. BTW, if the information is outrageously incorrect, bordering on dishonesty and/or fraud, then the moderator can push the right buttons.
Now, if someone wanted to comment in the Tech Discussions forum about the car whch was posted in the For Sale Thread (a bit of a stretch to me that someone wants to do that), let it happen. No different than someone saying "did you see this car on ebay, craigslist, etc.). I really like the Pelican For Sale rules. Keeps it clean.
Mark
08-21-2012, 11:27 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I'm sure this is stating the obvious here, but who cares what a Rennlister is selling his car for??? If he wants to sell it for 200% over market value, so be it. Sure, it may seem kind of nuts to some but to interject our pricing opinions on an item constitutes trade interference. When I sell stuff here, I expect people to STFU regarding the price or the quality. (Granted, my prices are almost always never sky high because I just want to move my items, but that's not the point). The market will dictate the value of the car. Price anything high enough and it will take forever to sell. Price it low enough and it will fly off of the shelves. Let the market determine how much crack the seller is smoking.
John D. has asked for this to be done; why is this so hard for us to follow?
Now, the allegations of fraud aspect is another matter altogether. Let's not forget that the riviera blue C2S thread was not a For Sale thread; rather, it was a "I'm thinking of selling" thread, a topic that opens up another can of worms. If a member is thinking of selling a car or if another member has found a car on the market, sorry, IMHO, those cars are fair game for discussion, especially if there is something scurrilous to the item. Please note that I did not say sale, for a "thinking about selling" thread is not a For Sale thread.
In real estate, a seller can try to sell their house for whatever price they want. State real estate boards could care less about that. Now, if that seller fails to disclose latent defects, well, states take a very dim view of that "marketing approach". Yes, I know most states do not have have a latent defect law with regard to vehicles, but aren't we talking about the "law of Rennlist" here?
Moving a thread from the public 993 forum to a members-only forum simply limits the target audience for a Rennlist member who is trying to reach the public in all possible venues. For instance, a 993 buyer might do a Google search and discover that NumberOne993FanintheKnownUniverse is selling his car. Move that thread to the members-only forum and NumberOne993FanintheKnownUniverse's opportunity to sell the car has been completely shut off to the buying public who do not have Rennlist memberships (different from registered Rennlist users). Is that what we're trying to accomplish or is it simply better policy to advise all users to refrain from commenting? I think the latter approach makes far more sense.
Finally, when another member posts "GLWS", he or she is just bumping the thread to the top. Ain't no big deal and, quite frankly, is part of what makes this board a community. When I saw Scott's thread, I thought, "Wow, Scott has been here for a while and has been a valuable member. Now that I've seen his thread, let me post something nice in support of his sale." Isn't the Rennlist community supposed to sustain good members?
My $0.02.
John D. has asked for this to be done; why is this so hard for us to follow?
Now, the allegations of fraud aspect is another matter altogether. Let's not forget that the riviera blue C2S thread was not a For Sale thread; rather, it was a "I'm thinking of selling" thread, a topic that opens up another can of worms. If a member is thinking of selling a car or if another member has found a car on the market, sorry, IMHO, those cars are fair game for discussion, especially if there is something scurrilous to the item. Please note that I did not say sale, for a "thinking about selling" thread is not a For Sale thread.
In real estate, a seller can try to sell their house for whatever price they want. State real estate boards could care less about that. Now, if that seller fails to disclose latent defects, well, states take a very dim view of that "marketing approach". Yes, I know most states do not have have a latent defect law with regard to vehicles, but aren't we talking about the "law of Rennlist" here?
Moving a thread from the public 993 forum to a members-only forum simply limits the target audience for a Rennlist member who is trying to reach the public in all possible venues. For instance, a 993 buyer might do a Google search and discover that NumberOne993FanintheKnownUniverse is selling his car. Move that thread to the members-only forum and NumberOne993FanintheKnownUniverse's opportunity to sell the car has been completely shut off to the buying public who do not have Rennlist memberships (different from registered Rennlist users). Is that what we're trying to accomplish or is it simply better policy to advise all users to refrain from commenting? I think the latter approach makes far more sense.
Finally, when another member posts "GLWS", he or she is just bumping the thread to the top. Ain't no big deal and, quite frankly, is part of what makes this board a community. When I saw Scott's thread, I thought, "Wow, Scott has been here for a while and has been a valuable member. Now that I've seen his thread, let me post something nice in support of his sale." Isn't the Rennlist community supposed to sustain good members?
My $0.02.
08-21-2012, 11:46 PM
#52
08-21-2012, 11:57 PM
#53
Banned
I've had a few exchanges in PM with a few people who feel it is their right to comment on asking prices. Further some feel that John D. would agree with those who criticize a given selling price.
Thanks to 911SLOW, here is an old post from John Dunkle himself on the subject. (Edited link)
https://rennlist.com/forums/4038407-post16.html
I think you'll see that his opinions and mine are in sync.
Regards,
Thanks to 911SLOW, here is an old post from John Dunkle himself on the subject. (Edited link)
https://rennlist.com/forums/4038407-post16.html
I think you'll see that his opinions and mine are in sync.
Regards,
Just reading and watching..... I'll stand by what I wrote a way sometime back...
Have a great evening folks...
John D.
08-22-2012, 12:23 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
John D., the founder of Rennlist, disagrees with you about comments in For Sale threads. Think about it.
Why are you here? Just to post what you want to in your own vacuum? Odd.
08-22-2012, 01:24 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
[QUOTE=Mark in Baltimore;9783098]I'm sure this is stating the obvious here, but who cares what a Rennlister is selling his car for??? If he wants to sell it for 200% over market value, so be it. Sure, it may seem kind of nuts to some but to interject our pricing opinions on an item constitutes trade interference. When I sell stuff here, I expect people to STFU regarding the price or the quality.
+1
If you don't like the price or quality don't buy it, bottom line!
+1
If you don't like the price or quality don't buy it, bottom line!
08-22-2012, 01:41 AM
#60
I appreciate Bob's, John D., 911Slow, Bonster, and Mark's support of this position.
If we all acted like gentlemen (and women), we probably wouldn't be having this conversation or debate.
We quickly escalate from "GLWS" to "No way in Hell is your car worth that and it will rot forever".
I feel like they are saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, move on".
It's refreshing, and appreciated.
If we all acted like gentlemen (and women), we probably wouldn't be having this conversation or debate.
We quickly escalate from "GLWS" to "No way in Hell is your car worth that and it will rot forever".
I feel like they are saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, move on".
It's refreshing, and appreciated.