Sumitomo HTR ZIII in the wet
07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
#16
Race Director
Dave
Have to disagree with you.
I have a good deal of experience, and success, driving in competition in everything from a light rain to a frog choker (on the left in the pic). I tell you this in hopes my opinion will carry a little weight with you.
You can feel when a tire is about to lose it, without throwing it out of control in some ham-fisted manner.
And you can certainly tell if one tire inspires more confidence than another in similar conditions. (You ought to experience Hoosier Rains!!!
)
You're in Colorado -- a good analogy is driving in the snow, you can feel little slips and losses in traction without the car being in a broad slide. No way are you an out of control ***** (BTW, IMHO snow is the best car-control clinic there is.)
I'm surprised no one has called Quadcammer on the inherent hypocrisy in his post.
According to Quadcammer, exploiting the limits of Sumis on the street means you're driving like a *****.
Quadcammer admits to having done stupid stuff to Sumis to get them unglued.
So by his own admission, Quadcammer is driving like a *****...
Have to disagree with you.
I have a good deal of experience, and success, driving in competition in everything from a light rain to a frog choker (on the left in the pic). I tell you this in hopes my opinion will carry a little weight with you.
You can feel when a tire is about to lose it, without throwing it out of control in some ham-fisted manner.
And you can certainly tell if one tire inspires more confidence than another in similar conditions. (You ought to experience Hoosier Rains!!!
)You're in Colorado -- a good analogy is driving in the snow, you can feel little slips and losses in traction without the car being in a broad slide. No way are you an out of control ***** (BTW, IMHO snow is the best car-control clinic there is.)
I'm surprised no one has called Quadcammer on the inherent hypocrisy in his post.
According to Quadcammer, exploiting the limits of Sumis on the street means you're driving like a *****.
Quadcammer admits to having done stupid stuff to Sumis to get them unglued.
So by his own admission, Quadcammer is driving like a *****...
Have I driven like a ***** in the past...hell yes! Do I make it a point not to do it in the rain? Yes. Do I try to avoid it these days? yes.
This was not meant to be as big a dig as boulder is taking it, just a reminder that things can go bad fast in the rain, especially in an *** heavy 911.
07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Boulder...I have sumis and love them in the rain. Yes, I am a ***** too! Too bad that almost every benign thread that QC gets on turns into a bunch of nice guys arguing. I think everyone should ignore him and maybe he will disappear.
I have had my Sumis for over a year in many conditions and cannot say enough about them...great tires at a great price.
I have had my Sumis for over a year in many conditions and cannot say enough about them...great tires at a great price.
07-07-2012, 01:04 PM
#18
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Right, you begin to feel when a tire is about to lose it as you approach its limits. I argue that doing this on the street, in the rain, is not a really great idea, especially for folks not as experienced as you.
Have I driven like a ***** in the past...hell yes! Do I make it a point not to do it in the rain? Yes. Do I try to avoid it these days? yes.
This was not meant to be as big a dig as boulder is taking it, just a reminder that things can go bad fast in the rain, especially in an *** heavy 911.
Have I driven like a ***** in the past...hell yes! Do I make it a point not to do it in the rain? Yes. Do I try to avoid it these days? yes.
This was not meant to be as big a dig as boulder is taking it, just a reminder that things can go bad fast in the rain, especially in an *** heavy 911.
As I said above to Mark, I think it's a good to leave yourself a safety cushion. These cars are still a hoot, even at 7/10ths. I agree that things can go bad very quickly in the rain. (A lesson I learned at 17, long ago.) And multiplied when the motor is hung like a pendulum out back
I do think that using a word like "*****" does tend to make digs rather large, wehther intended or not. JMHO
07-07-2012, 02:44 PM
#19
Race Director
07-07-2012, 03:26 PM
#21
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
07-07-2012, 07:47 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Dave
Have to disagree with you.
I have a good deal of experience, and success, driving in competition in everything from a light rain to a frog choker (on the left in the pic). I tell you this in hopes my opinion will carry a little weight with you.
You can feel when a tire is about to lose it, without throwing it out of control in some ham-fisted manner.
And you can certainly tell if one tire inspires more confidence than another in similar conditions. (You ought to experience Hoosier Rains!!!)
You're in Colorado -- a good analogy is driving in the snow, you can feel little slips and losses in traction without the car being in a broad slide. No way are you an out of control ***** (BTW, IMHO snow is the best car-control clinic there is.)
I'm surprised no one has called Quadcammer on the inherent hypocrisy in his post.
According to Quadcammer, exploiting the limits of Sumis on the street means you're driving like a *****.
Quadcammer admits to having done stupid stuff to Sumis to get them unglued.
So by his own admission, Quadcammer is driving like a *****...
Have to disagree with you.
I have a good deal of experience, and success, driving in competition in everything from a light rain to a frog choker (on the left in the pic). I tell you this in hopes my opinion will carry a little weight with you.
You can feel when a tire is about to lose it, without throwing it out of control in some ham-fisted manner.
And you can certainly tell if one tire inspires more confidence than another in similar conditions. (You ought to experience Hoosier Rains!!!
)You're in Colorado -- a good analogy is driving in the snow, you can feel little slips and losses in traction without the car being in a broad slide. No way are you an out of control ***** (BTW, IMHO snow is the best car-control clinic there is.)
I'm surprised no one has called Quadcammer on the inherent hypocrisy in his post.
According to Quadcammer, exploiting the limits of Sumis on the street means you're driving like a *****.
Quadcammer admits to having done stupid stuff to Sumis to get them unglued.
So by his own admission, Quadcammer is driving like a *****...
The point of my post was to try to explain to BB why QC made the ***** comment. I think it could have been worded better, but I did agree with his point about driving at or beyond the limit of adhesion on public roads.
I had P0's on my C4S, and recently replaced them with sumi IIIZ's. I haven't run them in the rain yet, but will probably have an opportunity for that when I do a 4k mile road trip next month to the PNW. I found the P0's to be a little noisy but that may have been because the rears were at the wear limit. The IIIz's were surprisingly affordable. I hope they're as good as everyone says.
07-07-2012, 08:19 PM
#25
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Yes Mike, I know what you're saying. I don't think I have your experience, but I do have 8 years of 911 track driving on everything from Toyo streets to Hoosier slicks. Once you learn a particular tire's characteristics, you can tell when they're very close to the limit.
The point of my post was to try to explain to BB why QC made the ***** comment. I think it could have been worded better, but I did agree with his point about driving at or beyond the limit of adhesion on public roads.
I had P0's on my C4S, and recently replaced them with sumi IIIZ's. I haven't run them in the rain yet, but will probably have an opportunity for that when I do a 4k mile road trip next month to the PNW. I found the P0's to be a little noisy but that may have been because the rears were at the wear limit. The IIIz's were surprisingly affordable. I hope they're as good as everyone says.
The point of my post was to try to explain to BB why QC made the ***** comment. I think it could have been worded better, but I did agree with his point about driving at or beyond the limit of adhesion on public roads.
I had P0's on my C4S, and recently replaced them with sumi IIIZ's. I haven't run them in the rain yet, but will probably have an opportunity for that when I do a 4k mile road trip next month to the PNW. I found the P0's to be a little noisy but that may have been because the rears were at the wear limit. The IIIz's were surprisingly affordable. I hope they're as good as everyone says.
Eight years is a huge amount of track experience. As for the Hoosiers, they are the crack cocaine of club racing. Huge grip, but it's gotten so that the minimum for many "stock" classes is a new set every weekend. Gets rather expensive rather quickly.
(But then no one every said racing would be cheap...) I like that some of the classes have gone to spec tires that are more durable.Everyone seems to be really pleased with the performance and value of the Sumis. Will have to go that route for the next set of 993 tires.
07-08-2012, 12:36 AM
#27
I like my Sumi's, they're great in the wet. Very sure-footed, even when I drive like a *****. 
The current set of Sumi's has gone 20k+ miles, I just can't seem to kill them.
As far as comparing to Pirelli P0 though, check the latest C&D (results below) for their new tire review. There are a lot of better choices out there for that kind of dough. Heck, PSS are $170 cheaper than P0 (set of 4, 18" NB sizes, after rebate) on tirerack.
Next time around I'll go for the best tire I can buy, PSS. If the car was more track oriented, then AD08.
The current set of Sumi's has gone 20k+ miles, I just can't seem to kill them.As far as comparing to Pirelli P0 though, check the latest C&D (results below) for their new tire review. There are a lot of better choices out there for that kind of dough. Heck, PSS are $170 cheaper than P0 (set of 4, 18" NB sizes, after rebate) on tirerack.
Next time around I'll go for the best tire I can buy, PSS. If the car was more track oriented, then AD08.
Here was the final rankings in case ya'll didn't see it yet. Rankings were based on dry/wet performance and everyday driving characteristics.
In order of placement:
1. Michelin PSS
2. Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08
4. Hankook Ventus R-S3
5. Continental Extremecontact DW
6. Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2
7. Toyo Proxes R1R
8. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
9. Pirelli P Zero
In order of placement:
1. Michelin PSS
2. Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08
4. Hankook Ventus R-S3
5. Continental Extremecontact DW
6. Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2
7. Toyo Proxes R1R
8. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
9. Pirelli P Zero
Last edited by mongrelcat; 07-08-2012 at 01:58 AM.
07-08-2012, 11:01 AM
#29
Instructor
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+ 1 for Sumi on wet pavement. This is me at my first DE a few years ago in a drenching rain. If you could blow up the picture you could see the terrified look on my instructor's face while he chanted "Please don't lift, please don't lift...". The tires held beautifully even with my inexperienced *** behind the wheel.
07-08-2012, 12:31 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Love the sumi's! And I've had them all. Michelin's. Pirelli's. Bridgestones, etc...
For the price, the Sumi's are outstanding. For street perfect. I have a second set of Pilot sport for the track, so I'm ok with getting value for my street tires.
Full recommendation for the Sumi's!
For the price, the Sumi's are outstanding. For street perfect. I have a second set of Pilot sport for the track, so I'm ok with getting value for my street tires.
Full recommendation for the Sumi's!