Notices
993 Forum 1995-1998

spirited driving and understeer...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-12-2012, 11:44 PM
  #31  
ca993twin
Nordschleife Master
 
ca993twin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 911
By the way - GREAT picture!!!! Is this Turn 6 at Riverside?
You have a great eye! This is one of the L.A. Times GP IMSA enduro events.
Old 04-13-2012, 12:04 AM
  #32  
race911
Rennlist Member
 
race911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 12,311
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 911
I must be in the minority here, but I do very little trail braking, if any, into the corners with my C4S (former POC driver here). Slow in and fast out works best for me whenever I'm driving 911s on the track.
Depends on the diff. Once you work with data (or even something simple like a Rumblestrip) it's amazing what you start understanding about setup and chassis dynamics.

But as I said above, no way trailing brake is a viable technique on a short wheelbase car running 185's all around.
Old 04-13-2012, 12:09 AM
  #33  
911
Rennlist Member
 
911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 1,807
Received 75 Likes on 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ca993twin
You have a great eye! This is one of the L.A. Times GP IMSA enduro events.
Awesome!!! If this was in the late '70s (LA Times 6 hour enduro) then I think I might have been there. Was this the one that Peter Gregg lost 45 minutes in the pits and came back to finish in 6th place? What a drive that was!
Old 04-13-2012, 12:10 AM
  #34  
911
Rennlist Member
 
911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 1,807
Received 75 Likes on 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by race911
Depends on the diff. Once you work with data (or even something simple like a Rumblestrip) it's amazing what you start understanding about setup and chassis dynamics.

But as I said above, no way trailing brake is a viable technique on a short wheelbase car running 185's all around.
Excellent point, Ken.
Old 04-13-2012, 12:22 AM
  #35  
ca993twin
Nordschleife Master
 
ca993twin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 911
Awesome!!! If this was in the late '70s (LA Times 6 hour enduro) then I think I might have been there. Was this the one that Peter Gregg lost 45 minutes in the pits and came back to finish in 6th place? What a drive that was!
This photo was at the 1982 IMSA 6-hour enduro. We finished 9th overall, 3rd in GTU but ahead of every GTO car. I mourn the passing of that track.
Old 04-13-2012, 12:46 AM
  #36  
race911
Rennlist Member
 
race911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 12,311
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ca993twin
I mourn the passing of that track.
Glad I got to drive it once. But oh don't we most miss the "amenities"???
Old 04-13-2012, 12:50 AM
  #37  
911
Rennlist Member
 
911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 1,807
Received 75 Likes on 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ca993twin
This photo was at the 1982 IMSA 6-hour enduro. We finished 9th overall, 3rd in GTU but ahead of every GTO car. I mourn the passing of that track.
I spent a lot of my childhood at that track in the 60s when both of my parents raced with the POC. It's my favorite track. I'm glad I was able to do a Skip Barber day in a Formula Ford there in 1989 right before they closed it.

Congrats, Steve, on a great finish. Btw, is Nardi motors associated with Sergio Nardi?
Old 04-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #38  
swmic

Rennlist Member

 
swmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,530
Received 40 Likes on 33 Posts
Default

Just for reference, I change out the stock springs and shocks on my 96 cab back in 04. The car had 16K on it at the time and drove like crap. The Monroes were toast even with 16K on them. One of rear shocks was completely blown with zero dampening. Needless to say, M030s, HDs, and a fresh alignment completely transformed the car.
Old 04-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #39  
Mark in Baltimore
Rennlist Member
 
Mark in Baltimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 23,303
Received 499 Likes on 320 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ca993twin
This photo was at the 1982 IMSA 6-hour enduro. We finished 9th overall, 3rd in GTU but ahead of every GTO car. I mourn the passing of that track.
Never knew that was your race car, Steve.
Old 04-13-2012, 10:16 AM
  #40  
DJF1
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
DJF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burlington CANADA
Posts: 7,117
Received 65 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by s4senna
I take it bilsteins HD are more (or better) suited to my M030 springs...are konis better suited?
I'm also wondering if and how new shocks could change the ride height (I know that's determined by springs mostly, but I am sure fresh shocks will raise it a tad)
Look at Gert's site ( www.carnewal.com) for suspension options. IMO with what you are asking from the car's setup the best solution for you would be to go with a coilover system like the PSS-10 which would give you street capable ride and adjustability to suit the car to your liking.

As others said above there are many things you can do to adjust the behavior,
RS adjustable bars will help as well, 245's up front will be fine and desirable, you can combine them with a 285 rear and a nice alignement/corner balance to suit your style.

My question to you is, how fat is your wallet?
Old 04-13-2012, 01:36 PM
  #41  
ca993twin
Nordschleife Master
 
ca993twin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 911
I spent a lot of my childhood at that track in the 60s when both of my parents raced with the POC. It's my favorite track. I'm glad I was able to do a Skip Barber day in a Formula Ford there in 1989 right before they closed it.

Congrats, Steve, on a great finish. Btw, is Nardi motors associated with Sergio Nardi?
Yes, Sergio and I were friends, and co-drove his RSR, raced against each other, and his dad, Angel Nardi did my mechanical work. Great people.

Back on topic for a moment... lack of sufficient suspension travel in the front (your shocks not correct for a lowered car, for example) will lead to AWFUL understeer.
Old 04-13-2012, 04:34 PM
  #42  
s4senna
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
s4senna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: L.A.
Posts: 212
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DJF1
Look at Gert's site ( www.carnewal.com) for suspension options. IMO with what you are asking from the car's setup the best solution for you would be to go with a coilover system like the PSS-10 which would give you street capable ride and adjustability to suit the car to your liking.

As others said above there are many things you can do to adjust the behavior,
RS adjustable bars will help as well, 245's up front will be fine and desirable, you can combine them with a 285 rear and a nice alignement/corner balance to suit your style.

My question to you is, how fat is your wallet?
I did go on carnewal's site...good stuff...
the choice will be tough between pss10's and simply adding bilstein hd's...
I am curious on the difference in feel between PSS10's vs M030 and Bilsteins...
I am not sure I need the adjustability per say, I am pretty sure once the stock monroes are swapped for a good set of shocks, I'll be happy. once again, its neither a daily driver, or even a car I will track. I just want it to handle properly for the few times I drive it

my wallet is fat enough to make the car right for the driver that I am
Old 04-13-2012, 04:37 PM
  #43  
s4senna
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
s4senna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: L.A.
Posts: 212
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

so, to this day, we've established that
I need new shocks or a coilover system
a strut bar
possibly better roll bars
wider front tires.

that's anywhere between 3 and 5k....

and now after looking at most of the 993 picture thread...I think I want to remove the front bumperettes, get euro lights and fog/duct combo....

why do I feel this is never going to end...
Old 04-13-2012, 04:47 PM
  #44  
ca993twin
Nordschleife Master
 
ca993twin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Oh... you have just begun to fall down the slippery slope.

You may find that the proper shocks with a good alignment is all you will need to fix the understeer issue. If your present tires are still good and fairly fresh, don't replace them until you've tried the shocks/alignment. If the understeer persists, then I would look for a stiffer rear anti-sway bar... perhaps with some adjustment holes

<edit> Make sure your alignment shop has the proper tools to check/set rear kinematic toe, and knows how to use them!
Old 04-13-2012, 05:34 PM
  #45  
s4senna
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
s4senna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: L.A.
Posts: 212
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

thanks ca993 twin...

in fact I was going to ask you guys if you knew a good shop to do all that in the L.A area....


Quick Reply: spirited driving and understeer...



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:06 AM.