serval

Just got the RoTtec carbon seats - will atempt the install tomorrow and will post my take / impressions. I have the hardbacks so curious how it will compare.

Spidey 993

I just bought some heated 993 hardbacks and I would love to find some additional Rottec/Misano style seats too.

I'll be interested in your opinion but post pics!

csmab

Serval- Any updates on your seat install? How do you like the Rottec?

serval

Let me start by saying that the review below refers to ROTtec SFCGT, CF shell seats, and more specifically, the seats I received. Your experience may differ. Before writing this review, I have also sent issue list to ROTtec (Ray), and have included his answers where appropriate.


What I orderedSFCGT seats w/ CF shell, black leather, red stitching, CF harness trims. Also needed different track/brackets to accommodate install in 993. I didn't opt for cross-stitching on the pads at this time thinking it may look busy, but I can always change my mind as they are attached with Velcro and easily removable. Cool!

Dealing with ROTtec (Ray)Good overall communication and availability; seats were delivered on time

First ImpressionWell packed, did not detect shipping damage. The seats make a great impression out of the box with good leather grain, uniform colour, and well finished carbon fiber shell.
They are quite narrow and deep so you may want to think twice if you already have trouble fitting the stock seats. I am 6'4'' / 220, with a 34 waist and just, and I mean just, fit perfectly. I also like walking on the beach and enjoy nice dinners
The seats are noticeably lighter than my current stocks (hardback sport seats), or at least that's what I thought until I attempted to lift the 993-specific tracks/brackets, and had to put my back into it.
Describing these as heavy is like saying Schwarzenegger has a slight accent. I will weigh them at some point, once I can lift them off the ground.

Second ImpressionChanging brackets to 993 specific ones allowed for a closer look at how the seat was put together.
CF shell: the construction is fine with no weave misalignment. I would've preferred a somewhat thicker lamination to increase torsion stiffness, but overall the shell was well executed.

Leather: Well stitched, with uniform colour throughout, and adequate tailoring. There are some alignment wrinkles on the side bolsters, but not to the point of distraction.

Harness Trims: I have ordered the CF option. which means you get CF laminated fronts and plastic backs. I would have preferred CF backs as well, but the combination is fine, if somewhat pricey ($500 option), but definitely aesthetically worth it from the front.

Metal parts: The seat has both sliding and reclining adjustments (the latter on both sides of the seat). I would say the quality is adequate but the finish is paint-on (black) not anodized or powder coated. This makes it very prone to chipping and scratching especially where metal touches metal, like the fold release bar at the back of the seat which locks in place around a fixed metal rod. Maybe I am picky, but I find it disheartening to have brand news seats that show scratches from the very first use. Ray mentioned that they are looking into doing this in the future.

Hardware: I include here all visible screws, bolts, and ancillary fasteners. These items are definitely sub-par in a seat at this price point. I did not expect titanium fasteners engraved with my initials, but I did expect better than bulk-buy quality from the local Fred's Hardware-Garden-Cold Beer and Donuts Emporium.
The visible bolt heads / screws are black, but while some of them are flat black, others are shiny with no rhyme or reason - whatever fell at hand. The screws holding together the harness trims seem to be drywall screws painted black- if I'm wrong, it is not by much.
From a distance it all looks fine, but Porsche owners are weaned on details and the invariable close-up will disappoint.

993 tracks/brackets: These can definitely be improved. I would be disappointed with this quality on a 1986 Yugo, but on a Porsche it is blasphemy. Have I mentioned heavy? Well, corner iron construction while lighter than cast iron, it is not the ultimate in finesse.
Other than oh, so heavy, the tracks seem very crude with very visible welding points and chip prone paint. Ray advised they may powder coat the base in the future

My biggest issue, however, is safety, especially with the particular set of tracks I received.
• First, the design allows for the use of 4 of the original 8 mounting points to the floor. Ray's feedback on the matter, was that due to spacing it was impossible to design brackets that would allow for all 8 bolts to be tightened once the seats were mounted. He also stated that the seats on their 993C4S have had zero issues for 9 months and counting.
• Second, is the alignment and size of the mounting holes drilled through the tracks. None of them are spot on, and what's worse is that all holes are slightly larger than needed. In one case, the hole was drilled in the wrong place and rather than throwing away the bracket, a second whole was drilled right next to it (see picture). Keep in mind that the channel width in the track is too narrow to allow the use of the original washers, so you rely just on the bolt head to keep the seat attached, so oversize mounting holes are a safety issue.
• Finally, my impression was that I received, refurbished or used tracks. I based this on the fact that the tracks we chipped and the provided hardware was used (ex: provided washers were crushed from previous install) . Rau assured me these items were brand new. As of this writing, I am waiting for Ray's response to this issue - the expectation being a proper replacement set.

Installation
My seats arrived with no mounting instructions, but most things are should be obvious.
• Switch existing mounting tracks to 993 specific tracks.
• Switch seat-belt mounting points from original to new seats using supplied bracket.
• Transfer CF harness trims (if purchased)
• Most of the mounting point allow for significant play, so you cannot tighten everything while out of the car. Leave bolts semi-tightened so you can do final adjustment while in the car
• Install seats in car using three of your original mounting hardware bolts, and the supplied bolt/nut assembly for the rear-left (driver), rear-right (passenger) mounting point. You'll need two open-end 13mm wrenches for this. There's a bit of play here, so make sure the tracks are parallel, or the sliding motion will cause them to bind. Tighten
• Tighten all other points securing tracks to seat (again 2 open-end 13mm wrenches), taking care to align the seats on the tracks and slightly to the outside. There are reclining adjustments on both sides, and you have to make sure the inside one (driver-right, passenger left) does not rub against the transaxle tunnel throughout the sliding or reclining range. Same goes for seat-belt brackets.

Driving impressionThese seats are deeper than my sport seats so they offer a better hold. The range of motion is about the same, but access to the rear seats is more cumbersome, lacking the high-side seat release option of the OEMs I did not push very hard since I am not satisfied with the how secure the attachment points are, but other than some twist torsion (your experience may differ based on your own weight), the seats are fine.

ImprovementsI will replace the hardware. You may have a different take, but I expect more out of a $3,300+ seat. Also will look into powder coating the base for a scratch free look. Depending on Ray's response with respect to the 993 tracks, I may choose to look into alternate tracks and adapt in consequence to get 8 mounting points and if possible lighter weight.

Am I happy?
Overall I have mixed feelings. Are they functionally better than the sport seats? There's better hold, but the quality is clearly inferior. Initially I thought I would be selling the hard-backs, but right now they're not going anywhere . While I understand that ROTtec is not Recaro or OMP, I did expect more of a uniform quality throughout, less corner cutting and better engineering in the discussed areas. As noted, the tracks are sub-par from both a safety (how the heck were these even shipped eludes me) and engineering aspect.

Conversely, the seats present a good design with both the CF and leather work being representative of the price point. I do understand ROTtec is a small business and I shared my observations with Ray who also concluded that they may address some of these areas in the future.

paa502

Great write-up. Appreciate your candor (and wit).

David in LA

Seats look gorgeous. Any way to use BK or Recaro or Sparco universal mounts? If his mounts are that quality, he should consider making these other universal mount an upgrade option.

serval

David, that is the exact thought i was having. And if that fails, i can maybe just fabricate new mounts. As it is, i don't feel the seats would be safe, especially in an accident.

Then adding better fasteners and a matte powdercoating would definitely rectify all the issues and produce some great seats in the end. But again, at this price point i didn't expect all the DIY equity more in line with second hand units not brand new ones. And i am still struggling to understand the logic in using such cheap fasteners and hardware in an otherwise good product. It is like buying the most expensive car paint and using a $2.50 roller to lay it on the car.

serval

In the interest of fairness, the latest update is that ROTtec has offered to replace the 993 rail that has been double drilled and also provide the respective hardware to attach all four rails to the floor. That should take care of the safety issue.

NP993

Wait, you're actually demanding that they replace bolts and washers, simply because the bolts and washers had at one point been used? I mean, sure, one should expect new hardware....but seat bolts/washers aren't wear items. They're not rod bolts. Seems a little fussy.

moacur

Sure... bolts are bolts but when you pay $3300 for a pair of seats with all the fixins.. You'd expect that the hardware would be new and the mounts would line up correctly. Right? It's not like he bought these out of the classifieds knowing that a few things might need to be replaced.

Anyways... Glad to hear Ray is stepping up. For $3300 I would hope that these things would be perfect. I'll be interested to hear what your final thoughts are on these once they are installed correctly. At one point I considered these and since have made up my mind to go with some Recaro PP's.

serval

Actually I did not ask them to replace the used hardware they sent, although I would have been entitled to do so because I am supposed to receive brand new everything. Just like I did on every part I have ever ordered from Rennline or ViperBob or any seller of new equipment.

The installation presumes the re-use of the original OEM bolts that attach rails to floor, which may be an acceptable solution, but for the oversize holes in the rails (see pictures) that present the real risk of having the headbolts go right through the hole. So they're sending larger diameter head-bolts that would provide a better mechanical lock. Thought that was clear if you read my installation notes and the previous post. Guess not.

kjr914

I had the same issue with washers on the GT3 seats I recently installed. This is where my newly acquired bench grinder (and some vice grips to hold the small washer to the finger-grinding-capable bench grinder) came in handy. It was pretty easy to make flat sided washers that did the trick.

serval

Thanks for the advice Keith, but already tried it . The space is so narrow that grounding the washer to fit reduces it to the breaking point.