Guards LSD - Heads up - great deal
02-27-2012, 06:29 PM
#4
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Thanks for letting us know, Jeff! Sounds like something I can use in my 993. Thinking... thinking... I'm hoping Ilko gets it before I snag it.
How hard would this be to install into a stock 993? Have to drop the transmission?
How hard would this be to install into a stock 993? Have to drop the transmission?
02-27-2012, 06:44 PM
#6
Race Car
Ilko will need a full LSD for serious track work.
Really, the gearbox doesn't have to be removed, I am seeing this more and more over the last few years. The 911 is one of the easiest cars to swap a differential in.
The factory would say drop the gearbox, set shims, lock shafts and get backlash reading down to a gnat's ****.
MOST shops these days are starting with the shims however they were on the original carrier, running a dye pattern and moving as necessary left to right, etc. Even the Cayman race car I bought was setup that way and so far so good.
You have some very competent shops up your way, I don't know of any personally in the Boston area but New Hampshire features Hairy Dog Garage, Dan Jacob's is a stellar wrench indeed.
Really, the gearbox doesn't have to be removed, I am seeing this more and more over the last few years. The 911 is one of the easiest cars to swap a differential in.
The factory would say drop the gearbox, set shims, lock shafts and get backlash reading down to a gnat's ****.
MOST shops these days are starting with the shims however they were on the original carrier, running a dye pattern and moving as necessary left to right, etc. Even the Cayman race car I bought was setup that way and so far so good.
You have some very competent shops up your way, I don't know of any personally in the Boston area but New Hampshire features Hairy Dog Garage, Dan Jacob's is a stellar wrench indeed.
02-27-2012, 06:50 PM
#7
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Damn you, people for tempting me.
Jeff, I'll let you know in a day or two if I'm willing to pull the trigger. Want to talk to a couple shops per your PM on setting it properly to see what it would take (probably Mark Nadler at Exotec if he's not swamped and can so this in a day). Can anyone give me a WAG estimate the amount of time needed for install by a good P-car shop?
PS. Again, damn. This is a street car with very occasional autocross duty. Very, very occasional.
Jeff, I'll let you know in a day or two if I'm willing to pull the trigger. Want to talk to a couple shops per your PM on setting it properly to see what it would take (probably Mark Nadler at Exotec if he's not swamped and can so this in a day). Can anyone give me a WAG estimate the amount of time needed for install by a good P-car shop?
PS. Again, damn. This is a street car with very occasional autocross duty. Very, very occasional.
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02-27-2012, 06:58 PM
#8
Race Car
NO hurry, just trying to move things OUT...I just moved a bunch of Cayman crap in! 
You'll appreciate it on the street as well, any time you lay the power down...nice to have two wheels pulling rather than one spinning...and mastering the 911 fishtail move is just priceless.
I would guess if they do it in the car maybe 3hrs labor? I did my first LSD years ago, in the car, locked the flywheel in some fashion and used the factory backlash jig and gauge...that gearbox is STILL in operation today...10 years later. The hard part is if you have to move shims from the left to right and/or vice-versa, you have to pull the bearings and press them back on. I became very adept at this, using a hotplate to heat the bearing so it just dropped on.
You'll appreciate it on the street as well, any time you lay the power down...nice to have two wheels pulling rather than one spinning...and mastering the 911 fishtail move is just priceless.
I would guess if they do it in the car maybe 3hrs labor? I did my first LSD years ago, in the car, locked the flywheel in some fashion and used the factory backlash jig and gauge...that gearbox is STILL in operation today...10 years later. The hard part is if you have to move shims from the left to right and/or vice-versa, you have to pull the bearings and press them back on. I became very adept at this, using a hotplate to heat the bearing so it just dropped on.
02-27-2012, 09:14 PM
#10
Race Car
Luial, the G50 units will not fit in a Tiptronic transmission. Guard's site says "coming soon" but I recall it's said that for quite some time now...maybe not enough demand.
To answer your question about performance gain, it's all about putting the power down...without LSD/TBD you will generally spin one wheel, losing "launch" power but no fish-tailing.
With LSD/TBD you will be less likely to spin the wheels as both will be under power...if you do spin them it'll be much less than if one wheel was spinning. The TBD is an excellent design for Autocross and "spirited" street use, I had this one on the track a few times and it was great, although it does not lock up under braking in tight turns, which can be very useful when driving "on the edge".
It's a nice versatile unit that will allow for tight turns in the case of Autocrossing and definitely be a whole lot more fun on the street if you're into putting the power down. A LSD will be a bit more "brutal" with regards to turning and how the unit functions under load.
To answer your question about performance gain, it's all about putting the power down...without LSD/TBD you will generally spin one wheel, losing "launch" power but no fish-tailing.
With LSD/TBD you will be less likely to spin the wheels as both will be under power...if you do spin them it'll be much less than if one wheel was spinning. The TBD is an excellent design for Autocross and "spirited" street use, I had this one on the track a few times and it was great, although it does not lock up under braking in tight turns, which can be very useful when driving "on the edge".
It's a nice versatile unit that will allow for tight turns in the case of Autocrossing and definitely be a whole lot more fun on the street if you're into putting the power down. A LSD will be a bit more "brutal" with regards to turning and how the unit functions under load.
02-27-2012, 09:22 PM
#11
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I am also interested with this. Ever since I put a 4l kit with ITBs on my car, it feels like I need traction control. On rainy days, too much spinning which makes me call it a widow maker!
So I really think I need this lsd.
Ill pm you.
Paul
So I really think I need this lsd.
Ill pm you.
Paul
02-28-2012, 10:40 AM
#13
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This is a Torsen (or Torsen2) type of diff, not ideal for track work IMHO. Their loading and unloading characteristics are rather digital and abrupt. Again, IMHO
Edit: My comment above may have misled some in thinking otherwise about the Torsen type differential. What I mean is the Torsen type may be better geared for street and autox type of environments. For track work in particular a clutch type LSD will offer an advantage on the decel diff locking adding stability or yaw damping while on the brakes.
Edit: My comment above may have misled some in thinking otherwise about the Torsen type differential. What I mean is the Torsen type may be better geared for street and autox type of environments. For track work in particular a clutch type LSD will offer an advantage on the decel diff locking adding stability or yaw damping while on the brakes.
Last edited by chris walrod; 02-29-2012 at 11:14 AM.
02-28-2012, 08:33 PM
#15
Race Car
Guys, I'm getting a lot of questions on this differential, it is a Guard Torsion Bias Differential...not the typical LSD. As I stated earlier, after Chris' post, it is intended for "spirited" street use, perfect for autocross due to fact that it's designed not to "drag" (lock-up) the wheels on decel and the inside wheel will "freewheel" in order to make tight turns quickly.
A typical limited slip, prepared at anything over 40% is great for the track, but not so great on the street...nor is it ideal for autocrossing. That's why Guard designed this differential.
While comments from Chris and others have the potential of sounding negative, I'm sure this is not the intention. So, for you "street warriors" out there that may attend the occasional track weekend, this is actually a pretty good setup, versatile on the street, putting power to both wheels, same at the track...it's just not intended for heavy track use on a full track-prepared vehicle.
If you have a Porsche that has some modifications HP wise, and it's primarily driven on the street, this would be an excellent differential to use...even better if you are an autocrosser.
Again, considering the bearings/shims, stub axles and original cost of the unit, I'd like to get $800 plus shipping for it.
Vehicle fitment for the Guard G50 unit: GT2/GT3/G50 (964/964T/993/993T/996/Turbo/968/Boxster S '00-'04
A typical limited slip, prepared at anything over 40% is great for the track, but not so great on the street...nor is it ideal for autocrossing. That's why Guard designed this differential.
While comments from Chris and others have the potential of sounding negative, I'm sure this is not the intention. So, for you "street warriors" out there that may attend the occasional track weekend, this is actually a pretty good setup, versatile on the street, putting power to both wheels, same at the track...it's just not intended for heavy track use on a full track-prepared vehicle.
If you have a Porsche that has some modifications HP wise, and it's primarily driven on the street, this would be an excellent differential to use...even better if you are an autocrosser.
Again, considering the bearings/shims, stub axles and original cost of the unit, I'd like to get $800 plus shipping for it.
Vehicle fitment for the Guard G50 unit: GT2/GT3/G50 (964/964T/993/993T/996/Turbo/968/Boxster S '00-'04