asofine

Resurrecting this thread to lament about some of the BS that's popped up on my 993 in my two years of ownership. A friend and I decided to tally up our ownership costs since buying cars at roughly the same time a couple of years ago, and I was shocked to see the numbers add up as I went along.

Granted: I suffer from a major case of vehicular hypochondria, I'm fastidious, and I don't do my own wrenching. Nonetheless, I feel like I've been pretty unlucky with several "one-off" problems that - in aggregate - feel like I've gotten the short end of the 911 reliability stick. Most of these problems are electrical in nature. Hence, my question: are Porsches (particularly in the 993 and prior eras) infamous for poor electrical components, or have I just been unlucky?

Here are the unexpected electrical problems I've encountered in the last two years:

Rear window electrical short:
Apparently the rear window houses several electrical components that I was previously unaware of. After some stethoscoping (almost literally) and diagnosing by RMG, we discovered that a problem with the wiring in my rear window was causing a fuse (the one that runs the 3rd brake light and cruise control) to short repeatedly. The only solution was to replace the rear window (not an inexpensive endeavor). After hmming and hawing, I eventually bit the bullet and replaced the window. All told, the diagnosing, the labor, the parts, the blood, sweat and tears totalled closed to $1900.

Headlight issues:
When I first purchased the car, one of the factory litronic lights had a faulty igniter. I was lucky enough to source one on RL and replaced it. Afterward, one of my headlights nonetheless fired intermittently for a short time. Between sourcing/installing the igniter and attempting a few fixes since before finally getting to a decent solution, I've sunk $535 into this problem.

Fuel Level Indicator:
When I first purchased the car, it had a faulty fuel gauge. Yada yada yada all told this was a $300 endeavor.

Radio problems:
I have a factory CDR-210 with the HiFi package. Unlike many users here, I actually found the sound quality of the system to be more-or-less fine (particularly considering the fact that I am playing crappy MP3 files on it through an iPod anyhow), so I decided not to change the setup. With that said, it's had some problems. The backlight on the head unit has been out since I bought the car. I haven't fixed that yet. I've also noticed that the radio emits a faint static-y noise. One day, the FM radio on it also went. It turned out that a cable was loose somewhere. Yada yada I paid for an hour of labor somewhere in there ($125).

OBC Light:
How does my car decide to pay me back for giving it a thorough detail from Glistening Perfection? It decides to kill its OBC light. I haven't fixed it yet, but after reading up solutions on RL, I'm sure I'll allow somebody more skilled than I to tackle this. I'm figuring I won't spend less than 100 bucks by the time all is said and done.

Several alternator-related problems:
Not electrical in nature, but anyhow...two consecutive alternator belt sensors were faulty and had to be replaced. Then an alternator bearing was whining uncontrollably so I replaced it. I also had an alternator belt snap on me. What are the odds of running into 4 snags that all pertained to the alternator and its various components? These problems added up in "diagnosing," labor and parts costs to the tune of $460.

Intermittent brake warning light:
An electrical ghost that worked itself out eventually. Nonetheless wanted to ensure that the brakes were fine when the light kept coming on, so an hour of labor invested there ($125).

Intermittent airbag light:
Similarly, my airbag light started popping on intermittently at one stage. Like the brake light, I had it checked out to ensure that the problem was the light and not the airbag. $95 there.

Here are some of the things I've addressed that fall closer to the vehicular hypochondria area:
Front windshield rattle:
I understand that this is a common 993 problem...I ultimately did the common "rope" repair...sunk $250 and the noise is about 50% better. EDIT: Upon re-examining my bill, it's unclear how much time was dedicated to this specifically...it was likely less than $250 though.

Sunroof rattle:
I understand that this is also a somewhat common problem...the kind folks at RMG were able to fix it using some of their magic for $135.

So, all told, that's $4,000 invested on unexpected maintenance issues in the last two years. Yes, a few hundred of it has been mostly a result of my fastidiousness, and I could have chosen to live without cruise control or a 3rd brake light and saved myself $1,900. In any event, I nonetheless find it irksome that my car has hit me with bizarre electrical and even the odd mechanical (see: alternator) problems to the tune of thousands of dollars in just a couple of years. So, oh knowledgable folks of Rennlist, tell me, does this sound like "normal" problems or have I just been unlucky?

To the question at hand, here was the "regular" maintenance on my 993 in 2011:
- 15,000 mile service: $825
- Tires: $965
- Windshield Chip: $25
2011 TOTAL: $1,815

In 2012:
- Tires: $700
- Regular Oil Changes & Misc.: $750
Smog check: $50
30,000 mile service: $1855
2012 TOTAL: $3,355

asofine

As an aside, I have virtually no complaints about the mechanical components of the car. I assume that the alternator issues were very bizarre and atypical, and that aside, the mechanical components of the car have been more-or-less rock solid in my 20k miles.

The unexpected maintenance issues I've encountered have been almost entirely electrical in nature other than the odd rattle here and there. I just want to ensure that my post isn't calling into question the mechanical reliability of our great cars!!

Ed Hughes

I keep every receipt on parts money spent on my fun cars, and a spreadsheet with date, mileage and work I did-I will never total them up.

goofballdeluxe

How you managed to spend $250 on a $20 rope for your front windshield rattle repair is beyond me. I consider myself a 1 (no mechanical skill) on a 1-10 scale of mechanical know-how, and it took me 20 minutes to do this myself. Your mechanic, or whoever charged you $250 for a $20 repair screwed you royally. I can only imagine how else he took advantage of you.

Also, as you said, much of the work wasn't really necessary unless you are super fastidious. That explains why you pay way more than the average owner. The $1900 back window repair is an example. Many owners would never spend nearly 2 grand for cruise control and a 3rd brake light repair.

If you want a 993 that has always got 95% of everything right, it's much cheaper than if your mind is such that you need 100% right to solve each and every problem, no matter how major, for very little return.

The other good thing, is usually after many thousands spent, you usually get a few years of no money spent.

Good luck. And don't go back to the $250 windshield rope fixer. He's not your friend.

asofine

The $250 figure may not be accurate. In digging up these #s, I had to try to separate individual labor line item costs from very long bills and I may have misread it or the labor quoted may have included another job. All of my work has been done by Bob at RMG and I'm sure that he's very honest.

Like you point out, I definitely suffer from "everything has to be 100% right syndrome," but you'll see from above that I've nonetheless encountered several "well, this really has to be fixed" issues. Like you've said as well, the only truly crazy repair was the rear window. At the time, I was hoping to have my insurance foot some of the bill...that didn't pan out.

EDIT: Yes, I just got to the bottom of this. I just dug up the bill for my 30k service. Total labor for the 30k service plus a bunch of other BS I asked Bob to address totaled 12 hours. It looks like when I uploaded this bill into Excel I assigned my own labor times to each BS item...only ensuring that they totalled 12 hours. So the $250 figure was a # pulled out of my butt!

asofine

I hope so!!

CorrdoBrit

I'm also a 1 on the scale of DIY jobbing in the garage. But I managed to fix the 3rd brakelight failure by boring a hole through the weather strip and hardwiring the connections using the P-car as a guide. It was dead easy and cost $0. Sometimes its worth giving it a go after some careful research to avoid these unnecessary expenses.

Next up are the valve cover gasket replacements.

asofine

Yeah, the rear window was really the only INSANE $/benefit repair in there. I have "glass" insurance and was hoping to sell my insurance company on the idea that the electrical problem was essential to the car's operation (I have no brake lights!) and that addressing the problem required replacing the glass. They weren't having it. In hindsight, that's definitely a bill that could/should have been avoided.

That aside, the electrical ghosts in the car have nonetheless been bothersome. Does anybody have any insight as to general perceptions about the electrical components of our cars?

rlme36

purchased TT in Oct of this year with 31.3k.

New tires-needed $800 love the sumitomos
New Bilstein/h&r springs- needed/secretly wanted too =-) $1700
front sway bar links-needed $300
New Elephant front control arm bushings-seemed prudent $300 ish
Driver side door switch, alarm not locking door properly-needed $12
Proper alignment $300
New Boost hoses-wanted
Breeze clamps-wanted

On a monthly basis, pricey given I am 3 months in. but... getting it set up correctly is great peace of mind.

Mike J

Hate to tell you, but $4000 unexpected maintenance for two years of operation is not that unusual, and you are actually at the mid to lower end of the scale. Your expenses are fundamentally electrical and that back window - although I do not understand why that window was replaced when the only thing it has is the defrost tracks and stop light wiring, there must be a way to work around that.

I track and ADD UP every dollar spent on all my cars, and one year I spent over $10,000 on unplanned fixes (engine rebuild + replacement of the entire Targa top+ repaint + gaskets/seals + a host of other fixes - and I did almost all of it myself), others here have spent more, and I NEVER hit that few year stretch without some unexpected expenses. That is one of the primary drivers for selling the car, hopefully the new one will be more solid (so far it is).

By the way, exactly what part of Porsche ownership did you think was cheap?



Cheers,

Mike

asofine

Oddly enough, reading this ^ actually makes me feel better. Not that I derive any satisfaction from your ownership expenses, but it seems to be a more honest reflection on the cost of 993 ownership than some of the posts in this thread paint.

I never expected any part of Porsche ownership to be cheap, especially considering the fact that I DD my car. What I learned from the previous Porsche in the family (the 89) was that these machines are EXTREMELY reliable but that regular maintenance just costs oodles more than it does on most cars. So, I always expected my 993 to give me dizzying bills for regular wear items. I didn't expect electrical ghosts and one-off problems to pop up quite as frequently as they have.

asofine

...and I also track each and every bill meticulously. The tally of the maintenance (all outlined above), the mods (of which the list is relatively short), insurance (very expensive for me unfortunately), plus each and every one-off expense (e.g. the BS outlined in this thread, CA registration, importing fees, etc.) is just over $14,000 for two years. That's the honest to God figure. My honest to God estimate when I made the plunge two years ago was about half of that ($3,500/yr. or $7,000 by now). I guess I was naive

Quadcammer

I have had no electrical beefs, save from a brake light sensor that actually broke the plastic body.

Repairs this year include:
brake light sensor, $10
new small filter to stop smoking, $20
hose clamp, $1
Maintenance, $125

Out the door for less than $160

Mike J

I think you are very very lucky. Hope you are knocking on wood.... :-)

TRINITONY

Alternator..$200 plus my labor..daz it..