chaoscreature

I own a 1995 C2 with some intermediate level track mods. I ran the Pomona DE event this weekend and lost my brakes a bit, not a total failure but enough to run off the end of the course twice. I had Loren Beggs ride in my car (what a treat!) the first session and he was amazed at how poor my braking was. After the first lap I had to significant braking effectiveness loss, the pedal still felt firm but I had to stand on it to get the car to slow down... ABS never activated. The brakes smelled horribly of overheating. To give you all an idea of where my car is at here is what I've got:

JIC Coilovers (7K front, 11K rear)
Front Strut Bar
Stock Sway Bars (adjustables wanted, but brakes take precedence)
Sumi HTR ZIII's in 225 Front, 275 Rear
Exhaust
PBR MetalMaster Brake Pads

So, thats about it for things that make the car faster. I did some other mods, but they don't add speed.

I am on a serious budget, hence the Sumi's on the track, so Pagids are out of the question. I am thinking of Hawk HTS-10 pads but heard some good things about PFT pads as well. When I started searching I almost lost my mind because of all the options, AXXIS, PBR, HAWK, PFT, PAGID etc!
Any recommendations? Any sales going on anywhere? Should I even consider lightly used pads?

Ed Hughes

I love Porterfield R4 or R4S. Plus, they are local to SoCal. Cost effective too.

What fluid do you run, and when was the last flush? I flush prior to each track weekend. IMO Motul RBF600 is the best bang for the buck.

Lastly, are your rotors worn, or have they been turned? Not good for track work.

fullbooker

Yeaah, I agree with Ed, sounds like a brake fluid flush is needed; I use ATE Super Blue/ Gold so I can easily determine that "old" fluid is out.Good luck!
Phil

chaoscreature

The pedal never went soft so I don't think I boiled over the brake fluid. I had fresh DOT4 fluid in the car, but to be safe I am going to change to ATE (since TC's Garage stocks it) before the next event.

Ed,
I will look into the Porterfields tomorrow, I am not familiar with the pads. Congats on getting all your mods done! It sounds like everything went well! Post your alignment specs when you get it done at Mirage.

DJF1

the issue at hand is that obviously you are driving at a good clip to overheat your brakes. I remember it took me a while before I was able to do the same thing to my brakes on stock pads. Good for you that obviously you have some skill to do that. What that means though at least to me is that you need either to tone it down or make effective choices which sometimes wont come cheap. Hate to say it, there is no middle road that will save budgets. Been there, done that. In my experience, you need to do two things. After making sure you have good disks, one is to get a set of good pads. I have melted, yes melted a set. Not fun and not exactly safe. Speed need safe choices and it needs money.
Pagids are the only pads that I have had to withstand the punishment of braking deep and braking repeatedly from high speed. Yellows are good as well as Orange and easy on the disks. Blacks are amazing but I need a set of new rotors after a weekend or two... I'm sure there are others out there maybe more economical, but IMO you should be asking which ones to buy that will withstand the use you need them for. It may not be cheap but it will be safe and effective.
The second part here is to find ways to increase the airflow to your disks. TurboS scoops, or NACA ducts in place of your fog lights with associated piping. That made a significant improvement in my experience.
Again the question is, how fast you want to go? Dont skimp on equipment to stay safe. Its a slippery slope indeed...

Bill Verburg

Ate 200( gold or blue) is a fine brake fluid but if there is any suspicion of overheating something better is wanted, there are lots of good choices from Motul, Prospeed, Endless and Castrol.

If the pedal never went soft then the fluid is probably fine.

You do need some track pads.

I like Pagid RS19 or RS 29, 29 has a little more bite, both can be used for occasional street use.

Another good choice is PFC, there are several versions and it would be best to get info from someone w/ more experience w/ them than me

DAVISRILEY

I'll second the pfc recommendation. Iirc I had 99 compound front, 01 rear, but I can't be sure. I will say that while they were substantially more expensive than sport pads, they also lasted a hell of a lot longer than they did. I was going through a set of r4s's in a weekend before I went to them, and when I put the pfc's in, I got 3 events out of them, and they still had about 70% left or so. So in the end, they were much less expensive.

Falcondrivr

I run PF 97s with RBF 600 fluid in stock rotors and calipers. I've never overheated my brakes and I'm running Hoosier R6s.
I also agree that they are less expensive in the long run. I've got 4 DE weekends at Sebring on my current set, and they look like they can easily make 4 more. I shopped around trying to keep the cost down and the the best price I could find was from these guys: http://shop.motorsportbrakespecialis...?categoryId=13
No affiliation, etc...Fast shipping too.
Loks like right now they are $278 for the front axle and $114 for the rear axle.

Mark in Baltimore

I run Castrol SRF for fluid and Hawk HT-10's for pads. The pads work well and are relatively cheap. I'd be interested to see how the HT-10's compare with PF97's in terms of longevity.

ppressle

Porterfields R4 is a fine pad as are many of the others mentioned. R4Ss are a street pad to be avoided for track. In my book R4s are pretty cost effective and perform well, but they do wear a bit more quickly than some of the others if you push really hard. I'd give them a try first though..

You might also try to get more cooling to your brakes. What is your ride height? If you lower much, the air scoops hide under the front valence. I ran a mod for a while where I used an extended brake cooling scoop which seemed to help with the temps. Basically two of the scoops cobbled together to make it about an inch lower. RS uprights will give a similar effect with the scoop.

Ed Hughes

I've run R4S on the large brakes on my 911 numerous track days, with no problem. But, I've got a lot of brakes on a 2600lb car. You are correct that Porterfield sells them as a performance street pad, not for track.

mcipseric

Porterfield R4
ATE super blue.
when did you change your fluid last?
i had a lot of brake fade my first DE. change the fluid regularly and have not had an issue since.

Stealth 993

Trash the Metalmaster pads!! They suck, & eat rotors. They also have a crap feel.

Flush the system as said, & make sure you still have the plastic air scoops on the control arms, they direct air to the brakes.

I've had great luck with Hawk pads on the track, but don't use the "blue" pads as they can destroy paint, & rims with molten metal.

Carrera51

ATE Blue or Gold will work fine. Since you are on a budget, I agree with Bill on the Pagid RS29 or RS19 yellow. They cost more than some of the alternative track pads, but they are very rotor friendly so they will increase your interval on rotor changes. Part numbers for your car are U1204RS29 front and U1203RS29 rear.

If you have any questions give us a call at 800-934-9112, we would be happy to assist you. We have a large stock of Pagid, Performance Friction, and Hawk pads in Porsche fitments.

chaoscreature

Thanks for all the help guys!
Asknig which pads is about like asking which pizza topping! I am trying to digest all this information so I can make an informed decision.
There are some specials on Hawk Black pads, but I don't see a lot of information/reviews on them... any experiences here with them? They seem comporable to the Blue's but only cost $170ish for the complete set... I have e-mails out to OG Racing and Porterfield brakes to see if anything else is "on sale".