front lower control arm bushings
10-26-2011, 08:28 AM
#31
Hi Bill, seems a fair representation of options available and their relative merits vs. compromises.
Personally I have been using walrod bushes on my 964 for about 10K km now without any associated wear problems or squeeks. Should they ever fail in the future it is now a very simple 30 min procedure to change them.
RS bushes are an excellent choice as well. Since I don't have the necessary equipment to fit them (hydraulic press) and I like my car stiff (9m trailing arm bushes fitted as well) the walrods perfectly fit my personal needs. Since us Dutch are known to be cheap the price is perfect as well;-)
Personally I have been using walrod bushes on my 964 for about 10K km now without any associated wear problems or squeeks. Should they ever fail in the future it is now a very simple 30 min procedure to change them.
RS bushes are an excellent choice as well. Since I don't have the necessary equipment to fit them (hydraulic press) and I like my car stiff (9m trailing arm bushes fitted as well) the walrods perfectly fit my personal needs. Since us Dutch are known to be cheap the price is perfect as well;-)
I sort of agree w/ you, there are 3 ways to go for the front bushes
1) rubber - in either sport or stock stiffness and further differentiated by setting up like a stock RS w/ softer fronts and stiffer rears or using full still in both leading and trailing position. The factory chose rubber for several good reasons. They are maintainance free and have a long service life, the stiffer versions are very appropriate for track use
2) poly-urethane -these are stiffer than any rubber version, transmit more NVH than any rubber version when new and properly lubed they work great, the issue is maintaining the lubed state which reduces noise and wear, but if they go dry they make noise and wear at an accelerated rate. They are the cheapest solution.3)spherical joints- these are the ultimate in stiffness and also NVH and will have the shortest service life and highest cost. They introduce the least stiction.
arguably and disregarding price, for street use, rubber is the most appropriate, for track use, spherical joints are the most appropriate, p/u is somewhere in the middle but is probably least expensive, at least in the short term
the other consideration is that the front suspension is not working in a vacuum, the rear suspension needs to be taken into consideration as well as the wheels and tires. You want to put together a complete package designed to optimize what you have for it's intended use.
I think we all agree that a stock 993 has way too much sloppy rubber in it's suspension for performance use, the only question is how much to replace and what to replace it w/. We are all conducting our own individual science experiments w/ our cars and reporting the results in these threads.
1) rubber - in either sport or stock stiffness and further differentiated by setting up like a stock RS w/ softer fronts and stiffer rears or using full still in both leading and trailing position. The factory chose rubber for several good reasons. They are maintainance free and have a long service life, the stiffer versions are very appropriate for track use
2) poly-urethane -these are stiffer than any rubber version, transmit more NVH than any rubber version when new and properly lubed they work great, the issue is maintaining the lubed state which reduces noise and wear, but if they go dry they make noise and wear at an accelerated rate. They are the cheapest solution.3)spherical joints- these are the ultimate in stiffness and also NVH and will have the shortest service life and highest cost. They introduce the least stiction.
arguably and disregarding price, for street use, rubber is the most appropriate, for track use, spherical joints are the most appropriate, p/u is somewhere in the middle but is probably least expensive, at least in the short term
the other consideration is that the front suspension is not working in a vacuum, the rear suspension needs to be taken into consideration as well as the wheels and tires. You want to put together a complete package designed to optimize what you have for it's intended use.
I think we all agree that a stock 993 has way too much sloppy rubber in it's suspension for performance use, the only question is how much to replace and what to replace it w/. We are all conducting our own individual science experiments w/ our cars and reporting the results in these threads.
10-26-2011, 08:52 AM
#32
They are a press fit w/ a vise, no moving parts
they work great for street or track, there is no dancing around of the front wheels as w/ stock bushes, these were used on 993 RS and 993 Cups for the best turnin feel use w/ GT2 monoball inner tierod, RS outer tierod, RS wheel carriers, lowered ride height and 8.5" front wheels again as used on the Cups and a good track suspension setup.
but that's probably too expensive too, so just go ahead and use the p/u bushes, they are inexpensive and won't wear or squeek for awhile
10-26-2011, 11:15 AM
#34
Race Car
I haven't re-greased in 3 years (Still original since first install),
This winter I am doing a complete suspension overhaul and will be re-greasing then.
This winter I am doing a complete suspension overhaul and will be re-greasing then.
10-26-2011, 12:05 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
I don't like the idea of a urethane surface pivoting on a bushing and needing to be lubed for long term use, so those are out.
10-26-2011, 03:00 PM
#36
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I installed a set of Chris Walrod bushings on my '95 993 6 months ago, they are awesome. No more walking around lanes, no more 45 mph shimmy, no difference in ride, no noise at all.
10-26-2011, 07:12 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I had to go through the control arm bushing thread to find pics in order to clarify what part of your control arm I was looking at (I'm not under my car).
If I am right, that is the front face of the forward bushing just as in the pic below (thanks Andreas). No through bolt, just a bolt threaded into the bushing, a bushing that is keyed to the control arm bracket. All clear now.
10-26-2011, 08:07 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
There are a number of options available as pointed out. which one is best for you depends on your particular needs and budget. for my DD street car, the Walrod bushings, purchased from FDM work fine for me. I only had them installed a month or so ago, so they don't squeek, but if and when they do, it is simple to have them re-greased, and or replace them at again at that time. although the grease that comes with it is pretty gnarly sticky goopy stuff.
10-26-2011, 09:00 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
10-27-2011, 12:47 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Not yet, but that is the route I will take after I turn down some drifts on my lathe. I've read they can be difficut to press out. Some heat from a heat gun might help.
Elephant Racing uses that method to press out the old bushings. Installation Instructions
Too crude for my liking.
Elephant Racing uses that method to press out the old bushings. Installation Instructions
Too crude for my liking.
10-27-2011, 01:01 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Not yet, but that is the route I will take after I turn down some drifts on my lathe. I've read they can be difficut to press out. Some heat from a heat gun might help.
Elephant Racing uses that method to press out the old bushings. Installation Instructions
Too crude for my liking.
Elephant Racing uses that method to press out the old bushings. Installation Instructions
Too crude for my liking.
The best way would be to cleanly cut or grind off one flange then use a drift to press out both halves at the same time. Otherwise, the only way I can figure is to hammer out one half and press out the other.
The other single piece bush can be pressed out with the proper drift.
If one does not have a larger press, it is a bit clumsy to set up the control arm between the legs of the press.
Elephant does make some drifts for installation, but not all required.
10-27-2011, 01:50 PM
#45
Right - you have to use a cold chisel or air hammer to get one side started - once it starts to move it will come out easily, then you can either press or hammer out the other side. A press is essential for the one piece bushing - there are stories on here of poeple spending hours with a hacksaw, hammer and chisel trying to get it out. I spent 20 minutes making a suitable drift, then 2 minutes to pop it out.