Unrealistic Buyers
07-28-2011, 02:33 PM
#18
Race Car
When people start pulling the nitpicking crap and want to tell you everything they know about these cars is when I politely reply, "This probably isn't the right car for you, I appreciate you stopping by today." Usually shuts them up especially when I start walking away with the keys in hand.
Mike
Mike
07-28-2011, 02:43 PM
#19
Race Director
Perhaps the seller was also a bit unrealistic.
Your vehicle is a 95 narrowbody with 125k miles and as you freely admit, a whole bunch of track time.
yes, it has some nice mods, including the 3.8, which you basically claim isn't worth the money.
Since we all know that mods, even really nice ones, add maybe 10% of their original value to the car, if that, I'm not sure what the problem is here. Just because the mods create a nice package doesn't make them all of a sudden worth much more on the secondary market.
Lets assume it was stock...which would make it worth about $23kish. The mods are not adding $22k in value, especially given that the motor (probably the biggest selling point) now has 118,000 miles on it.
To be frank, I wouldn't pay mid 40s for a 95 125k track rat, 3.8 or otherwise.
Your vehicle is a 95 narrowbody with 125k miles and as you freely admit, a whole bunch of track time.
yes, it has some nice mods, including the 3.8, which you basically claim isn't worth the money.
Since we all know that mods, even really nice ones, add maybe 10% of their original value to the car, if that, I'm not sure what the problem is here. Just because the mods create a nice package doesn't make them all of a sudden worth much more on the secondary market.
Lets assume it was stock...which would make it worth about $23kish. The mods are not adding $22k in value, especially given that the motor (probably the biggest selling point) now has 118,000 miles on it.
To be frank, I wouldn't pay mid 40s for a 95 125k track rat, 3.8 or otherwise.
07-28-2011, 02:44 PM
#20
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Ken, I sell for a living over the last 8 years and can (and might at some point) write a book on negotiation techniques, especially culturally biased ones.
In short - pay no attention to what the buyer objects to. If he's interested in the car he will attempt to negotiate. Do so towards a common goal. If he wants it for half price - there is no common goal, so thank him politely for coming over and do not get into any negotiations at all at that time. Let him process and decide if he wants a common ground deal.
PS. I've previously made my comments on the "video" that mongrelcat posted. The seller in that clip is an idiot. Save yourself the aggravation and don't do that.
In short - pay no attention to what the buyer objects to. If he's interested in the car he will attempt to negotiate. Do so towards a common goal. If he wants it for half price - there is no common goal, so thank him politely for coming over and do not get into any negotiations at all at that time. Let him process and decide if he wants a common ground deal.
PS. I've previously made my comments on the "video" that mongrelcat posted. The seller in that clip is an idiot. Save yourself the aggravation and don't do that.
07-28-2011, 07:34 PM
#22
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Nile13 is exactly right. I've been in sales for a long time and virtually all sales transactions involve compromise and finding deal terms that are acceptable to the seller and buyer. If the buyer wants to buy your car for half your asking price I'd say that that's a non starter from a deal standpoint. The gap is just too big to address. In this case the buyer needs to have a crystal clear picture of what he wants and what he's willing to pay. If he wants a narrow body '95 I'm pretty sure he'll be able to find several. Whether they meet his buying criteria or not is another matter.
It's possible that his negotiation strategy is severely flawed.
It's possible that his negotiation strategy is severely flawed.
07-28-2011, 10:08 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Nothing, other than no way, no how am I spending that much on a car while I'm basically not making any money. Ultimately, it shakes out to 7MPH trap speed down the front straight.
OK, to wrap this up, he calls me as I'm towing up to Thunderhill asking if he can still get in the event to drive the car. I said I'd be happy to send him whatever data I pull tomorrow, and he can analyze it.
Appreciate the input on selling. But this isn't something I'm actively trying to sell. Was more of someone-who-knows-someone and thought something like this car would fit his requirements. And then we basically never get past cosmetics. (I traded enough photos over the past two weeks, and have some of his past cars, of which more than one were rather cosmetically challenged.) My mistake for being thrown by all the emails, and a couple of hours on the phone, in thinking I had a sophisticated buyer.
The market for this car bears no relation to any street car. Wasn't bought that way, won't eventually be sold that way. (I always get a kick out of the buy someone else's race/track car for pennies on the dollar. Last 964 racer I inspected about a year and a half ago, buyer was so proud he bought it cheap. Wasn't so happy when I pointed out it had a halo cage, and that if he valued his life he'd be starting over from scratch on the cage. Last I heard the car was almost $30k in reworking, and stillborn.)
The mileage on the engine is 7K. And while I may be blase on what a 3.8, rather the extra ~150cc gets you, the engine in this car is way beyond a P/C set slapped on an otherwise stock engine. (Briefly, it's robustness built in, plus the lightening/windage effort done. Alas, it's expensive.) But the post above busting my ***** on the engine isn't exactly coming from someone who's had his hands in any of these things, nor has any track experience to understand why a car like this appeals to a microscopic subset of us 993 owners. Whether you agree or not, gotta pay to play if you want this level of prep--purchased as-is, or built up out of your own rapidly emptying wallet. Worth it? Frankly, the car is only 1-1.5 sec/min lap time better than my stock class RSA. But the ease with which you can get that extra speed is oh-so satisfying.
And it's ready to go in 100F degree heat tomorrow. Got a rear mounted camera, too. So I'll post anything interesting. But it's a pretty low-end event with mostly Miatas.
OK, to wrap this up, he calls me as I'm towing up to Thunderhill asking if he can still get in the event to drive the car. I said I'd be happy to send him whatever data I pull tomorrow, and he can analyze it.
Appreciate the input on selling. But this isn't something I'm actively trying to sell. Was more of someone-who-knows-someone and thought something like this car would fit his requirements. And then we basically never get past cosmetics. (I traded enough photos over the past two weeks, and have some of his past cars, of which more than one were rather cosmetically challenged.) My mistake for being thrown by all the emails, and a couple of hours on the phone, in thinking I had a sophisticated buyer.
The market for this car bears no relation to any street car. Wasn't bought that way, won't eventually be sold that way. (I always get a kick out of the buy someone else's race/track car for pennies on the dollar. Last 964 racer I inspected about a year and a half ago, buyer was so proud he bought it cheap. Wasn't so happy when I pointed out it had a halo cage, and that if he valued his life he'd be starting over from scratch on the cage. Last I heard the car was almost $30k in reworking, and stillborn.)
The mileage on the engine is 7K. And while I may be blase on what a 3.8, rather the extra ~150cc gets you, the engine in this car is way beyond a P/C set slapped on an otherwise stock engine. (Briefly, it's robustness built in, plus the lightening/windage effort done. Alas, it's expensive.) But the post above busting my ***** on the engine isn't exactly coming from someone who's had his hands in any of these things, nor has any track experience to understand why a car like this appeals to a microscopic subset of us 993 owners. Whether you agree or not, gotta pay to play if you want this level of prep--purchased as-is, or built up out of your own rapidly emptying wallet. Worth it? Frankly, the car is only 1-1.5 sec/min lap time better than my stock class RSA. But the ease with which you can get that extra speed is oh-so satisfying.
And it's ready to go in 100F degree heat tomorrow. Got a rear mounted camera, too. So I'll post anything interesting. But it's a pretty low-end event with mostly Miatas.
07-29-2011, 12:56 AM
#25
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Ken, I have to say after having gone through the buying process of a 993 (2nd round as I write) and selling a 993....It's a hell of a lot easier to buy. The attitude that often presents on the part of over eager buyers is one that can be discribed in the following terms: surly, willfully ignorant, exasperated, impatient, unreasonable, temporarilly hard of hearing or icapable of reading, and self inspired. The notion that one is selling for many individuals connotes desperation in some form. I often had to relay (as seller) that the economy and my finances were mutually exclusive, and that I was selling not auctioning my car. I avoided eBay and caigslist...Pelican forum after a week (I should have used reenlist) did the job. I was very clear that the amount offered was 'the' sale amount, not 'an' amount, or a starting point. In retrospect I learned so much about the selling end tha it has irrevocably changed manner in dealing on the next 993. The correct buyer will come along. Just be clear and concise. This will weed out the time wasters and will save you time. When someone spends $500 + for a full compression and leak down PPI then you have an individual you want to sell to. I frequently asked the potential buyers (out of state) how they would transport the car...when I heard I want to find the best deal I can I live in...wrong answer. I sold to an individual able to transport the way I did. Closed carrier with a stellar reputation. (I used Intercity Lines, and so did my buyer). This really prequlified like no other. The PPI and closed carrier transport.
GLWS
GLWS
07-29-2011, 03:45 AM
#26
GT3 player par excellence
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this is why i hate selling cars.
i DUMP them cheap at dealers b/c they cut me a chk right away. private buyers nickle dime you and nags on forever. i have zero patience for that.
race911's car was built by our mutual friend, basically cost no obj. the build cost is close to $100k, NOT inc donor. if the buyer is nitpicking at mid $40's, he's not a real porsche guy and doesn't really know what he's looking at.
most of the guys on RL who bought my cars, trailers, engines and tranny buy them sight unseen and no questions asked, usually the first question they ask is where do i wire the money, the 2010 RS money was wired in 60 min after i hung up the phone. those who ask for pix and 80 questions never buy anything. at least that's my experience.
keep the zonker. you can scare us with it ;-)
i DUMP them cheap at dealers b/c they cut me a chk right away. private buyers nickle dime you and nags on forever. i have zero patience for that.
race911's car was built by our mutual friend, basically cost no obj. the build cost is close to $100k, NOT inc donor. if the buyer is nitpicking at mid $40's, he's not a real porsche guy and doesn't really know what he's looking at.
most of the guys on RL who bought my cars, trailers, engines and tranny buy them sight unseen and no questions asked, usually the first question they ask is where do i wire the money, the 2010 RS money was wired in 60 min after i hung up the phone. those who ask for pix and 80 questions never buy anything. at least that's my experience.
keep the zonker. you can scare us with it ;-)
07-29-2011, 04:19 AM
#27
RL Technical Advisor
If I had the cheese, this one would be sitting in my garage and not resold ever again.
07-29-2011, 07:04 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
While the initial nitpicking ( re paint chips, etc) appears excessive - it in not unexpected from some buyers .... all part of the "dance of the butterflies" as a potential deal may advance toward actual negotiation.
The comment " how do I know it's a 3.8?" would be the key to getting under my skin .... as it's a direct challenge to personal honesty and integrity: that would be the motivator ( for me) to smoke someone in the schnoz .... and write out my disappointment in an articulate post
The comment " how do I know it's a 3.8?" would be the key to getting under my skin .... as it's a direct challenge to personal honesty and integrity: that would be the motivator ( for me) to smoke someone in the schnoz .... and write out my disappointment in an articulate post
07-29-2011, 09:23 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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I hate d- bags like this
Look nozzle, this is what it is, you wanna talk money let's talk money, but I don't have time for you to stand here and pick it apart, I don't wanna hear it !
I think we've all had similar experiences
As soon as they start with that crap, I say "Ok, you're not the buyer for my car, have a great day!" That usually shuts them the f up
Look nozzle, this is what it is, you wanna talk money let's talk money, but I don't have time for you to stand here and pick it apart, I don't wanna hear it !
I think we've all had similar experiences
As soon as they start with that crap, I say "Ok, you're not the buyer for my car, have a great day!" That usually shuts them the f up
