FisterD

There is no arrangement or agreement between Thomas (Resident Sicko) and me. I have no control over what he does or says, or anyone else for that matter.
It is well known that due to the economic changing times a few years ago, I turned all of my attention to FD Motorsports. I spent (and still spend) a lot of R&D time developing my products to the point they are at today. It has gone far beyond my hobby and passion to consuming most of my waking hours. I do what I do to serve this community, support myself and my family, and also because I love it. I wouldn't change a thing.
Thanks for all of your continued support. You guys frickin' rock!!!

IXLR8

Is the muffler design patented?

I haven't been around since the first day of the 993 so I can't with 100% certainty say who made modified mufflers first, but what about Robin Sun's RSR muffler? I found posts going back a very long way.

Resident Sicko

For the record, the only "intellectual property" was to pack or not to pack the cans with new stuffing. Thanks to some who posted here, I will share that I may or may not have gone with such packing.

Did someone else develop the pass through design on the motor sound mufflers before? Probably, look at the OE turbo example. Now if you will excuse me, I have another idea I am working on called "Blue". It is a primary color that is not yellow, nor is it red.

Spidey 993

Sicko,

Consider yourself lucky then. As you read, Darin has worked countless hours of his personal time perfecting his Fister mufflers.

I see you as a thief and shame on you for taking advantage of his help and knowledge.

As you try and make jokes about it, diminishing the value of that help in "to pack it or not" I think that as pathetic.

Have fun selling your rip off, and become a freakin sponsor while your at it.

IXLR8

Thats what I thought.

CorrdoBrit

Having heard from Darin, I have to agree this is a cheap shot. Your version doesn't appear to offer any distinct advantages over the products available from FDM and therefore could be deemed a copycat product. If there are distinct advantages eg HP gains, torque improvements etc, then this could be a useful alternative option. I've owned both the RSR's and now the Fister Stg II, and I can say categorically the improvements over the RSR's are significant. Less drone at highway speeds, overall better tone and some nice aural sounds on downshifts.

Whilst you're obviously not breaking any laws, ethically you're on pretty thin ice. As a VERY satisfied FDM customer I want to continue to enjoy their current and any future products that may be developed. By doing what you're trying to do only makes Darin and the boys think twice about putting in their valuable time and energy developing these products. Just my 2c.

IXLR8

Damn nice, RS.

I bought a used set of stock mufflers a few months ago and thought I would polish them since they are spares and I have the time.

Now I know what I have to look forward to.

PNogC2S

I would normally avoid this type of thread like the plague, but I have to chime in because some things just don't make sense here.

RS, please correct me if I've misunderstood any of the following:
1. You got some friendly help/advice from Darrin - maybe a lot, maybe a little...doesn't really matter.
2. You are offering these up to RL'ers as a "good will" item from which state you will not make a profit for $400/set
3. You are catching grief from some members on RL for offering these

It seems you are creating a "lose-lose" situation here. Instead of creating good will on RL you are catching grief, you are not making a profit, and you are not providing a meaningful cost savings to RL'ers. Meanwhile, you are precluding FDM from making a profit on their product (I am assuming they make a profit, since it's part of their business).

So my question to RS is simply- Why bother pursuing this?

AOW162435

Forget not the originator of the external crossover pipe, Leland Pate.......

This is where LPMM comes from.


Andreas

PNogC2S

"This is where LPMM comes from."

Is that really what LPMM stands for? I've wondered for years what LPMM meant.
Learn something new every day.

Spidey 993

I learned something today too, and it wasn't what LPMM stands for.

AOW162435

It's in the thread. Somebody coined it to congratulate Leland for his work.

No different than the term 'AndyMod' which is bandied about on the Toyota 4WD boards. It refers to me and the traction control bypass switch I devised for the 3rd generation 4Runners.


Andreas

PNogC2S

Cool on both counts. I Googled AndyMod -- It seems that's a household word in the 4Runner world... You are a regular Celebrity!

TravisB

First class response.

A couple things from my perspective. If you're charging the going fabrication rate, even if it's not much, you're still coming out on top...AKA, profit..and potentially pulling a few bucks out of the wallet of the guy who helped you in the first place. I am quite sure there's not $400 in materials there, and if you were really just doing this for the fun of it and a favor to the community you'd be charging for materials and return shipping alone rather than just undercutting FDM.

An attractive Plan B would be to scare up a couple-few pairs of mufflers to loan/rent to people while they wait for theirs to get back from FD. Maybe even make Stage II/III rentals for people to try out (the number of "I can't decide, II's or III's?" threads shows there is possibly some demand here). You could potentially drum up a little extra business for Darin while at the same time putting a little in your pocket without being in the grey area of legitimacy..I know I'd pay $100 to try them out first for a week and know exactly what I am getting, and I am sure I'm not alone!

Kika

But.... if someone does this, aren't they stealing your IP...which is what got us in this mess in the first place