Advice on US import 993 C2S
06-17-2011, 08:21 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Advice on US import 993 C2S
Hello folks
I have been hunting a C2S Tip (Black/Black) for about 5-6 months now. I have kept an eye all major used car markets (EU) on a daily basis, but so far without any luck of finding the right car for me, I have come close a few times though. It's been the longest desert walk of my life, especially with the money just sitting in the bank AND a Boxster in the garage that I really need to sell during this summer season.
Recently this car turned up on Mobile.de:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/sh...n&id=146551834
At first I wrote it off because because it is a US import with rather high mileage (96.000 Miles) but being the ONLY black C2S tip on the market I decided to take a closer look.
After having exchanged a few mails with the seller I am now starting catch an interest for this car.
First of all the price is just right for the european market. I know 50.000 USD (35k EUR) is very pricy for you guys, but it's as good as it gets in europe unless you steal it or buy outside EU. I expect a non-US import 993 C2S with similar milage would cost 10-14.000 USD more. Thats cash I can spend on modifying and upgrading the car to my taste!
Based on the pictures and what the seller has told me the car is in good condition.
The rims are awful, but those could easily be replaced. I have my heart set on original hollow spoke turbo twists.
I have read a lot about the differences between US and ROW cars on this forum, but I haven't found any mention of whether the tip-gearbox is different between US and EU cars?
Also I am concerned about SAI trouble. Is it correct this problem only applies to US models?
I know the suspension is different, but since this is a 100k mileage car a suspension upgrade would be a pretty good investment at this point. Can you guys tell from the pictures if the car has US stock ride height?
What other issues should I be aware of? Are you seeing any dodgy stuff on the pictures or maybe some cool upgrades? I like the 996 wheel, but the aftermarket speakers are not really my thing so I would need to replace with non-chrome ones.
How much work is it to replace the carbon trimming on the dash with regular black leather? Not sure if I like it or not.
The speed tachometer is also US with both Miles and KM/h. I think I could live with that but do you guys know if Porsche still have these parts in stock so I could replace with a EU version at a later point?
The car has a US rearfender with bumper plugs. Is it possible to remove the bumper plugs and fit the EU license plate or is the rearfender different from a EU model?
I hope you guys will take the time to give me your honest input on this car - my final decision will definitely be based on your advice.
NB. Please excuse the grammar!
I have been hunting a C2S Tip (Black/Black) for about 5-6 months now. I have kept an eye all major used car markets (EU) on a daily basis, but so far without any luck of finding the right car for me, I have come close a few times though. It's been the longest desert walk of my life, especially with the money just sitting in the bank AND a Boxster in the garage that I really need to sell during this summer season.
Recently this car turned up on Mobile.de:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/sh...n&id=146551834
At first I wrote it off because because it is a US import with rather high mileage (96.000 Miles) but being the ONLY black C2S tip on the market I decided to take a closer look.
After having exchanged a few mails with the seller I am now starting catch an interest for this car.
First of all the price is just right for the european market. I know 50.000 USD (35k EUR) is very pricy for you guys, but it's as good as it gets in europe unless you steal it or buy outside EU. I expect a non-US import 993 C2S with similar milage would cost 10-14.000 USD more. Thats cash I can spend on modifying and upgrading the car to my taste!
Based on the pictures and what the seller has told me the car is in good condition.
The rims are awful, but those could easily be replaced. I have my heart set on original hollow spoke turbo twists.
I have read a lot about the differences between US and ROW cars on this forum, but I haven't found any mention of whether the tip-gearbox is different between US and EU cars?
Also I am concerned about SAI trouble. Is it correct this problem only applies to US models?
I know the suspension is different, but since this is a 100k mileage car a suspension upgrade would be a pretty good investment at this point. Can you guys tell from the pictures if the car has US stock ride height?
What other issues should I be aware of? Are you seeing any dodgy stuff on the pictures or maybe some cool upgrades? I like the 996 wheel, but the aftermarket speakers are not really my thing so I would need to replace with non-chrome ones.
How much work is it to replace the carbon trimming on the dash with regular black leather? Not sure if I like it or not.
The speed tachometer is also US with both Miles and KM/h. I think I could live with that but do you guys know if Porsche still have these parts in stock so I could replace with a EU version at a later point?
The car has a US rearfender with bumper plugs. Is it possible to remove the bumper plugs and fit the EU license plate or is the rearfender different from a EU model?
I hope you guys will take the time to give me your honest input on this car - my final decision will definitely be based on your advice.
NB. Please excuse the grammar!
06-17-2011, 08:49 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Hej Appear
I am hoping others will jump in but from your post it sounds like you've done a fair bit of homework so far and so the only advice I can give is:
From the photos only, it looks like a quite a few mods have been done so you may want to dig a bit deeper and figure out all the mods that you might want to change back before you decide to buy. It could cost Kr to put everything back to standard / Euro spec. Of course, selling the bits you take off would offset this cost.
Ride height looks US. Front bumper holes have already been filled or a Euro bumper version fitted. Rear bumper is the same deal - you either fill where the rubber bumpers fit or buy a Euro version.
Not sure but would guess: Tip is same. SAI is US only.
Good luck.
I am hoping others will jump in but from your post it sounds like you've done a fair bit of homework so far and so the only advice I can give is:
From the photos only, it looks like a quite a few mods have been done so you may want to dig a bit deeper and figure out all the mods that you might want to change back before you decide to buy. It could cost Kr to put everything back to standard / Euro spec. Of course, selling the bits you take off would offset this cost.
Ride height looks US. Front bumper holes have already been filled or a Euro bumper version fitted. Rear bumper is the same deal - you either fill where the rubber bumpers fit or buy a Euro version.
Not sure but would guess: Tip is same. SAI is US only.
Good luck.
06-17-2011, 10:18 PM
#3
Check the "Ride Height", all US models, and Canadian models were fitted with a higher than Euro height, to meet US mandated "Bumper height" to comply to these standards. The rest of the world is called ROW suspension, and thus lowered about 1.5 inches. I bought the ROW suspension and had the Springs and Schocks installed, then alligned. I'm in Canada and imported my C2S from the US. I will try to attach a picture of the new ROW suspension!
Cheers and hope you have good luck in your purchase!
Bert
Calgary, Canada
Cheers and hope you have good luck in your purchase!
Bert
Calgary, Canada
06-18-2011, 12:37 AM
#4
Racer
A few quick thoughts -
Check out the option sticker under the hood/bonnet/trunk and see if that carbon fibre is factory or not (looks like its aftermarket, but you want to be sure before deciding to replace it)
Those wheels look like they might be re-finished original turbo twists - check the back of the spokes if they are smooth they are hollow-spokes if they have grooves they are solid (recently there was an RL thread w/photos so you know what to look for). If they are hollow-spokes, and they aren't bent or cracked they can be re-fiinished to original silver fairly inexpensively --- so you may already have the wheels you want.
SAI is a US only issue, but not a huge problem (search for RL threads on the topic)
The 993 stainless door sils are definitely not factory, but a cool upgrade if they appeal to you.
As you said, the 996 wheel is a very nice upgrade IMHO.
No need to apologize for the grammar... it's better than many US citizens'.
Check out the option sticker under the hood/bonnet/trunk and see if that carbon fibre is factory or not (looks like its aftermarket, but you want to be sure before deciding to replace it)
Those wheels look like they might be re-finished original turbo twists - check the back of the spokes if they are smooth they are hollow-spokes if they have grooves they are solid (recently there was an RL thread w/photos so you know what to look for). If they are hollow-spokes, and they aren't bent or cracked they can be re-fiinished to original silver fairly inexpensively --- so you may already have the wheels you want.
SAI is a US only issue, but not a huge problem (search for RL threads on the topic)
The 993 stainless door sils are definitely not factory, but a cool upgrade if they appeal to you.
As you said, the 996 wheel is a very nice upgrade IMHO.
No need to apologize for the grammar... it's better than many US citizens'.
06-18-2011, 02:43 AM
#5
SAI will light up a Check engine warning light periodically, but since they don't test OBD2 on the inspections it will be just an annoyance. You can remove the check engine light bulb or get a cheap 30€ OBD2 scanner to turn off the light.
The stock danish/swedish plate will not definitely fit on the rear with the plugs I think, a motorcycle-style 2-row plate will. You can't just remove the rear bumperettes to gain space because are there are huge holes plus protruding aluminum supports under them. I would suggest either having the holes sealed by plastic repair guys or sourcing a euro rear bumber cover and getting it painted. This is maybe 500-700€ if you do the dis/assembly yourself.
The car looks a bit tired on the pics with "tuner" rims, aftermarket speakers and the passenger side fog/high beam light missing. There probably won't be any maintenance history from a dealer like that. This is just my opinion but but without seeing the car I'm putting on the "should have an engine out full service and check" -basket. Also be very diligent on the front end for possible collision damage.
There's an euro LHD 6-speed C4S in the UK for 5k more btw; the ad has been on for a while so I think there's some room in the price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2852380.htm
The stock danish/swedish plate will not definitely fit on the rear with the plugs I think, a motorcycle-style 2-row plate will. You can't just remove the rear bumperettes to gain space because are there are huge holes plus protruding aluminum supports under them. I would suggest either having the holes sealed by plastic repair guys or sourcing a euro rear bumber cover and getting it painted. This is maybe 500-700€ if you do the dis/assembly yourself.
The car looks a bit tired on the pics with "tuner" rims, aftermarket speakers and the passenger side fog/high beam light missing. There probably won't be any maintenance history from a dealer like that. This is just my opinion but but without seeing the car I'm putting on the "should have an engine out full service and check" -basket. Also be very diligent on the front end for possible collision damage.
There's an euro LHD 6-speed C4S in the UK for 5k more btw; the ad has been on for a while so I think there's some room in the price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2852380.htm
Last edited by Aatos; 06-18-2011 at 03:02 AM.
06-18-2011, 12:08 PM
#6
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Administratively speaking….. What does this Euro situated 993 C2S cars ownership title look like? Is it USA? What are the possible admin hoops ahead when re-importing a USA car?
FYI – I shipped my USA 993 back to Germany and after two years brought it back to the US via Lufthansa Cargo. The USA Customs in LA ran me in circles when demanding official documentation that the USA emission system was in place; not modified. EPA this, EPA that. Our car’s title is/was the original MSO I think it’s called, she it . . . . I’d ordered the car. It has simply been road ready registered in two countries.
Does your dream 993 with a Tip gearbox have to be a C2S? I would think the Tip requirement of yours would work to your advantage in the homeland (USA) market search. All I’m saying is the field of Tip 993s is greater without the C2S constraint.
FYI – I shipped my USA 993 back to Germany and after two years brought it back to the US via Lufthansa Cargo. The USA Customs in LA ran me in circles when demanding official documentation that the USA emission system was in place; not modified. EPA this, EPA that. Our car’s title is/was the original MSO I think it’s called, she it . . . . I’d ordered the car. It has simply been road ready registered in two countries.
Does your dream 993 with a Tip gearbox have to be a C2S? I would think the Tip requirement of yours would work to your advantage in the homeland (USA) market search. All I’m saying is the field of Tip 993s is greater without the C2S constraint.
06-18-2011, 12:34 PM
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This is a RLer's car....and is exactly what you're looking for. They don't get any nicer than this. Don't know if it's still available.
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...tiptronic.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...tiptronic.html
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06-18-2011, 01:59 PM
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Wow ... a single owner 1998 C2S with a few options (non Tip) asking $56,900. Has the ether come back to the market? Check out the satin silver Carrera door sills. Nice car eh.
06-18-2011, 02:06 PM
#10
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Hi Appear.
I believe that the gear ratios of US cars are different spec to European cars. (i.e. they are set up more for economy / cruising than for speed).
I imported my car from the US to the UK, and love it. I did lower the car as the US cars also are set up with a higher ride height.
Good Luck
I believe that the gear ratios of US cars are different spec to European cars. (i.e. they are set up more for economy / cruising than for speed).
I imported my car from the US to the UK, and love it. I did lower the car as the US cars also are set up with a higher ride height.
Good Luck
06-18-2011, 02:41 PM
#11
Race Car
Why didn't the seller clean up the car when taking the photos? Also, with that high mileage, check for oil leaks... The car does not give the impression of having been well-taken care of... you might be in for some unpleasant surprises IMHO...
06-18-2011, 04:47 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Thank you everyone - what a great place this is!
Based on your advice I have decided this is not the car for me. I had the feeling, and you guys have confirmed my doubts about this car. The lack of 'care' shown in the pictures is the biggest tell about the state of the car.
The seller replies in very short sentences and I am probably not going to know the truth about this car before I purchase it and drive it back to denmark (1500+ km trip) and you guys have brought up a couple of very valid reasons for adding this to the 'engine out and full service check' basket.
This thread has made me less worried about getting a US import car. Unfortunately the hassle of importing one myself is just too much work. I have read it usually takes over a month to get a car transported to Europe, and in less than two months I am moving to Italy (veneto region) so time is not on my side. But I really need to get a 993 before I go there...
@LimeyBoy - appreciate the danish greeting and advice hej back to you!
@OceanBlue C2S - Awesome looking car. Ocean Blue would be my 2nd option, but those are also very rare!
@PNogC2S - lot's of good advice, thanks!. I have asked him for a picture of the sticker under the hood. I will keep that tip in mind for the next car I find.
@Aatos - Good to know that about SAI and thank you for trying to trying to track down a better candidate! Being a C4S it's of course a manual and with grey interior. I have my heart set on a C2S Tip with black/black, but a nice looking Black/Black C4S would be worth considering. The prices for a decent C4S manual in EU is out of my range though ~ 65k+ USD! and I have to pay 180% danish registration tax (~ 50-65K USD) on top of the purchase price. I didn't notice the high beam missing but it's weird how the bonnet badge is only on the car in some of the pictures. The small license plate would never work for me, so I would probably need to replace the rear bumper. Good to know!
@M. Schneider - Yes. My dream car is a widebody 993 tip My car will be a DD (3-4 trips every day all year) and I live in downtown copenhagen with about 20-30 light signals on my way to work so I like the convenience of an automatic. If not a widebody S model then preferably a Targa, but I have heard way too much about rattles and leaks to seriously consider that model.
@deadhead1960 - Can't open the link. I need to become a member here first thing when I get my car! Is the car in the US now?
@ppashley - Thanks. So you're driving a LHD in UK? I tried that once, that was fun...
@993RS - I completely agree with you... something smells!
After 5-6 months of browsing daily I am really finding it harder and harder to not be tempted by other models such as the Cayman S or a Maserati. Not exactly a 'dreamcar' the same way the 993 Carrera is, but I am starting to think the 993 dream was just not meant to be for me... how many of you guys waited for 6+ months while searching intensely for the right car to turn up?
Based on your advice I have decided this is not the car for me. I had the feeling, and you guys have confirmed my doubts about this car. The lack of 'care' shown in the pictures is the biggest tell about the state of the car.
The seller replies in very short sentences and I am probably not going to know the truth about this car before I purchase it and drive it back to denmark (1500+ km trip) and you guys have brought up a couple of very valid reasons for adding this to the 'engine out and full service check' basket.
This thread has made me less worried about getting a US import car. Unfortunately the hassle of importing one myself is just too much work. I have read it usually takes over a month to get a car transported to Europe, and in less than two months I am moving to Italy (veneto region) so time is not on my side. But I really need to get a 993 before I go there...
@LimeyBoy - appreciate the danish greeting and advice
hej back to you!@OceanBlue C2S - Awesome looking car. Ocean Blue would be my 2nd option, but those are also very rare!
@PNogC2S - lot's of good advice, thanks!. I have asked him for a picture of the sticker under the hood. I will keep that tip in mind for the next car I find.
@Aatos - Good to know that about SAI and thank you for trying to trying to track down a better candidate! Being a C4S it's of course a manual and with grey interior. I have my heart set on a C2S Tip with black/black, but a nice looking Black/Black C4S would be worth considering. The prices for a decent C4S manual in EU is out of my range though ~ 65k+ USD! and I have to pay 180% danish registration tax (~ 50-65K USD) on top of the purchase price. I didn't notice the high beam missing but it's weird how the bonnet badge is only on the car in some of the pictures. The small license plate would never work for me, so I would probably need to replace the rear bumper. Good to know!
@M. Schneider - Yes. My dream car is a widebody 993 tip
My car will be a DD (3-4 trips every day all year) and I live in downtown copenhagen with about 20-30 light signals on my way to work so I like the convenience of an automatic. If not a widebody S model then preferably a Targa, but I have heard way too much about rattles and leaks to seriously consider that model. @deadhead1960 - Can't open the link. I need to become a member here first thing when I get my car! Is the car in the US now?
@ppashley - Thanks. So you're driving a LHD in UK? I tried that once, that was fun...
@993RS - I completely agree with you... something smells!
After 5-6 months of browsing daily I am really finding it harder and harder to not be tempted by other models such as the Cayman S or a Maserati. Not exactly a 'dreamcar' the same way the 993 Carrera is, but I am starting to think the 993 dream was just not meant to be for me... how many of you guys waited for 6+ months while searching intensely for the right car to turn up?
06-18-2011, 06:36 PM
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06-18-2011, 09:09 PM
#14
Drifting
...the hassle of importing one myself...appear
Good luck; in a few months you'll be driving the Stelvio....
