993 coupe vs cabrio?
04-24-2011, 09:20 PM
#46
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I've owned both, probably like many of use here. I too am new, actually returning from a few years w/out a Porsche.
Things to remember if you haven't owned a ragtop in a while. The back window can be annoying at times, and needs attention to keep clear. While most Porsche's rarely make noises like squeaks and rattles, a convertible will do so more than a coupe. I think (somebody correct me here) Porsche recommends replacing the top every 5 years. What's that cost? Many people don't replace them, but you do need to treat them at least. So while they may be cheaper and more common now in the used market they cost more to own in the long run.
Things to remember if you haven't owned a ragtop in a while. The back window can be annoying at times, and needs attention to keep clear. While most Porsche's rarely make noises like squeaks and rattles, a convertible will do so more than a coupe. I think (somebody correct me here) Porsche recommends replacing the top every 5 years. What's that cost? Many people don't replace them, but you do need to treat them at least. So while they may be cheaper and more common now in the used market they cost more to own in the long run.
04-24-2011, 09:22 PM
#48
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Awesome, tempesta ... where in Texas are you going to settle? I can give you some real world data, then, because I moved from the Boston area to the Austin area last spring, with my 97 cabriolet.
It gets hot as hell during midday in the summer, of course; I have found that the AC in the 993 can keep up with the 95-100 degree temperatures, but not quite as easily as, say, the AC in our other cars -- an 06 Mercedes CLK convertible and 99 BMW 740iL. That's pretty traditional for the air cooled 911s, the 993 and 964 have by far the best AC of the bunch, but Texas summers take it to task for sure.
However, at least here in Austin where the humidity is not bad at all, summer mornings and summer evenings are prime convertible time ... perfect weather to own a cabriolet. And for the spring, fall and winter, you'll be in heaven with the cab here in Texas, I took some terrific drives through the Hill Country in my 993 with the top down and it rivaled summer and fall drives through New England as great top-down territory. I drove mine late afternoon yesterday, it was in the mid 80s (mid 90s during the afternoon), sun was on its way to setting, and I was perfectly comfortable with the top down and the AC on.
Now, I don't care if it's a coupe or a cabriolet, if you leave it parked outside during the summer in Texas it's going to be roasting when you get back in it and it will take a while before the AC can overcome that, but that's the case with pretty much any car. The AC in a 996 or 997 is going to be more capable, but I wouldn't trade the soul of the 993 for either one based on the weather.
There are other Texans on this forum who can probably chime in on that subject, as well. I asked the same question when I was about to move down here, and got good advice about keeping the car. But I think a cabriolet is a great choice here. I only wish the 993 turbo came in cabriolet form. I owned an 87 930 coupe back in 2000-2001, and sold it when I moved to Boston because it was not going to be a good daily driver in traffic. Its AC would not have been a good choice for Texas, either. But the boost is addictive and I miss it.
It gets hot as hell during midday in the summer, of course; I have found that the AC in the 993 can keep up with the 95-100 degree temperatures, but not quite as easily as, say, the AC in our other cars -- an 06 Mercedes CLK convertible and 99 BMW 740iL. That's pretty traditional for the air cooled 911s, the 993 and 964 have by far the best AC of the bunch, but Texas summers take it to task for sure.
However, at least here in Austin where the humidity is not bad at all, summer mornings and summer evenings are prime convertible time ... perfect weather to own a cabriolet. And for the spring, fall and winter, you'll be in heaven with the cab here in Texas, I took some terrific drives through the Hill Country in my 993 with the top down and it rivaled summer and fall drives through New England as great top-down territory. I drove mine late afternoon yesterday, it was in the mid 80s (mid 90s during the afternoon), sun was on its way to setting, and I was perfectly comfortable with the top down and the AC on.
Now, I don't care if it's a coupe or a cabriolet, if you leave it parked outside during the summer in Texas it's going to be roasting when you get back in it and it will take a while before the AC can overcome that, but that's the case with pretty much any car. The AC in a 996 or 997 is going to be more capable, but I wouldn't trade the soul of the 993 for either one based on the weather.
There are other Texans on this forum who can probably chime in on that subject, as well. I asked the same question when I was about to move down here, and got good advice about keeping the car. But I think a cabriolet is a great choice here. I only wish the 993 turbo came in cabriolet form. I owned an 87 930 coupe back in 2000-2001, and sold it when I moved to Boston because it was not going to be a good daily driver in traffic. Its AC would not have been a good choice for Texas, either. But the boost is addictive and I miss it.
I bought myself one of those windshield heat reflector things for my M3 when I lived here last and it worked wonders when I parked it, particularly with the windows rolled down a touch. I can't imagine owning another car without one.
This is a fantastic problem to have. I can imagine roaming the hill country in a cabriolet is quite a trip.
1996 Porsche: 282 hp/250 lb torque
2011 Kia Optima Turbo: 274 hp/269 lb. torque. Also gets 34mpg highway.
Of course, anyone shopping for a 1996 Porsche wouldn't be considering a Kia, but my point is, for about $25K, there are many new cars that can match the N/A 993 performance wise.
2011 Kia Optima Turbo: 274 hp/269 lb. torque. Also gets 34mpg highway.
Of course, anyone shopping for a 1996 Porsche wouldn't be considering a Kia, but my point is, for about $25K, there are many new cars that can match the N/A 993 performance wise.
Yeah there are plenty of powerful hot rods out there. What I keep hearing about the 993 that sounds so alluring is this idea that at relatively low speeds, the 993 feels like you're going fast, whereas other more modern rides mute those feelings. I'm still considering the 997 though, and reading all of the '993 vs 997' threads. Every time I look at 993s I lean that way and every time I look at the newer 997s I lean that way.
04-24-2011, 09:25 PM
#49
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A 6 speed coupe is the performance track car, and even if you don't take it to the track, that is the image. There were no Carrera Cup Cabs, no RSR cabs, and no Grand Am cabs. As a rule, they don't race 911 cabs. A cab is great for what it does. To me it's pretty, but not a mean looking performance machine like a coupe. Coupes get more scarce all the time because they get raced and wrecked.
Both are great cars, just depends on what you want.
Both are great cars, just depends on what you want.
04-25-2011, 06:09 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
Fact #1: All 993 bodies start as a Cab at the factory. At a later stage in the production line the body shell gets added a tin top, glass top, or rag top depending on the final car being built.
Fact #2: Cab is only about 100 pounds heavier than a plain vanilla Coupe and about the same as a C4 / C4s. However, this added weight is due to the motors / gears for the mechanism which sit low in the car. The Rag top is lighter than the Coupe frame + metal + heavy glass sunroof, rear window, and side windows which the Cab doesn't have. The Cab has a lower center of gravity than the Coupe which is desireable.
Fact #3: 0-60 time are EXACTLY the same. so unless you have figures that say the contrary, please share them.
Fact#4: Cabs are not less "precise" to drive than a coupe. That's just nonsense.
I've driven Coupes with rollcages that felt a lot loser than my rigid and tight cab. It all depends on how the suspebsion is setup on either car. The Tub is as rigid on both platforms.
Fact #5: I'm a purist and I drive a Cab...go figure.
To the OP: Get the car that you are going to enjoy the most. If I could have my way, I would have a Coupe for bad weather days and the Cab for the good ones.
Welcome to the Madness!!
Fact #2: Cab is only about 100 pounds heavier than a plain vanilla Coupe and about the same as a C4 / C4s. However, this added weight is due to the motors / gears for the mechanism which sit low in the car. The Rag top is lighter than the Coupe frame + metal + heavy glass sunroof, rear window, and side windows which the Cab doesn't have. The Cab has a lower center of gravity than the Coupe which is desireable.
Fact #3: 0-60 time are EXACTLY the same. so unless you have figures that say the contrary, please share them.
Fact#4: Cabs are not less "precise" to drive than a coupe. That's just nonsense.
I've driven Coupes with rollcages that felt a lot loser than my rigid and tight cab. It all depends on how the suspebsion is setup on either car. The Tub is as rigid on both platforms.Fact #5: I'm a purist and I drive a Cab...go figure.
To the OP: Get the car that you are going to enjoy the most. If I could have my way, I would have a Coupe for bad weather days and the Cab for the good ones.
Welcome to the Madness!!
First of all I absolutely agree about sunny day cab, rainy day coupe concept. And I agree, that differences in acceleration times are minute, but it's there. 993 has relatively soft (flexing) bodyshell, big leap in stifness area happened in 993 -> 996 transition. Latter one has lighter budyshell and 45% more stifness because of the use of new high tensile steel and better cad algorithms.
But about the facts.
#1 Yes, all Porsche cars (even 997-s) start with no roof. But this is purely technological process in assembly factory. We all know how flexible 993 floor panel alone is. Welding together with other tub parts, gives it gradually more and more stifness. Roof is absolutely cruical part, it gives structurally space-frame like structure to the car. Take it as strut brace between front and back struts. And we all know, that strut bars add stifness and steering precision
911, 964 and 993 is designed as coupe and roofless version is compromise towards to usability and leisure. Actually 993 carries over 964 roof, one of 2 parts taken from old model. Porsche GT it designed roofless from ground up. And Boxter. But as we know, Cayman stellars in precision and its basically Boxter + roof.
Rennsport systems say:
The performance of any aftermarket swaybar is dependent upon chassis stiffness. Targas, Cabriolets, and 914s may not respond the same way as a Coupe when using large swaybars, due to chassis flex. These cars will require additional chassis reinforcement to take full advantage of suspension upgrades. The 996 Cabriolet's are far stiffer than their predecessors and do respond very nicely to suspension upgrades.
I've driven enthusiastically both cars on b-roads. As we know, cab rattles more = it has more body flex.
#2 & #3 I agree, that lower gravity is better. Thats why number of sunroof-delete options are on sale. But 100 pounds is 100 pounds. Pure school physics. It takes more time to move heavier car at the same power. I didn't find specific data for 993 (data was missing in red book), but current 996 and 996 models lose about 0.2 sec (cab/coupe).
#4 I agree, that it all comes down to precise suspension tuning, wheel sizes, tire pressures etc. For track I prefer Coupe over Cab. For late night city cruising i prefer Cab.
#5 I totally understand Your point, being Yourself a cabriolet owner.
04-25-2011, 07:29 AM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Cabrio993 , your statement is 100% correct regarding 997 , they were designed as a cabrio and the coupe was an 'addition' so to speak. The development team wanted to create a extremely solid structure for this car and did not want to make any compromise regarding cab rigidity.
However, the 993 comes from a different era and was developed as a coupe. targa and cab are considered a compromise between handling, rigidity and open top motoring.
Now It matters very little, all 993's are wobbly cars compared to today's standards.
But any 993 is more than rigid enough to provide a lot of fun and in the end that is all that counts.
I have had all 911 models in my possession at one point including a 997 turbo. Today I only have one Porsche , a 993. Although 'a collection' is great to have it bothered me that I was not using any of them. So I sold all and kept my favorite. A wobbly 993.
However, the 993 comes from a different era and was developed as a coupe. targa and cab are considered a compromise between handling, rigidity and open top motoring.
Now It matters very little, all 993's are wobbly cars compared to today's standards.
But any 993 is more than rigid enough to provide a lot of fun and in the end that is all that counts.
I have had all 911 models in my possession at one point including a 997 turbo. Today I only have one Porsche , a 993. Although 'a collection' is great to have it bothered me that I was not using any of them. So I sold all and kept my favorite. A wobbly 993.
04-25-2011, 09:42 AM
#53
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All of this talk about the genesis of cabs and coupes is all well and good, but I'd really love to know if deadhead1960 will address Vic's concerns or whether, as Vic sagely observes, DH will make himself scarce for a few days and then eventually pop up like a Jersey Whack-A-Mole. As of this writing, DH has been on Rennlist numerous times today, the last time being 6:21PM.
This video clip is the triple distilled essence of hilarity.
So, um, DH, please tell the board: are you a car dealer/curbstoner? (I know you're reeeeeading this...
)
This video clip is the triple distilled essence of hilarity.So, um, DH, please tell the board: are you a car dealer/curbstoner? (I know you're reeeeeading this...
)
04-25-2011, 10:16 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
I love my cab and if someone offered me an identical coupe I would not get it. I love convertibles and own three of them. Are you one of those convertible people? Only you know. If so, don't make a mistake and get a coupe. So many when you cruise the 'twisties' on a day with clear blue skies from both bikers and other car nuts. It always makes my wife and I smile as we cruise with the sun shining down and wind blowing through with the sweet sound of the 993 engine. Priceless!
** On a side note when purchasing, make sure the recall for the locking mechanism was done. A well kept maintained, documented example will show that the work was done. If it was not, I'm not sure what applies at the dealerships anymore. A lot of years have passed. Also, make sure the boot cover comes with the car. They are expensive and a must for topless driving. Kind of a pain to use each time but so worth it.
when you cruise the 'twisties' on a day with clear blue skies from both bikers and other car nuts. It always makes my wife and I smile as we cruise with the sun shining down and wind blowing through with the sweet sound of the 993 engine. Priceless!** On a side note when purchasing, make sure the recall for the locking mechanism was done. A well kept maintained, documented example will show that the work was done. If it was not, I'm not sure what applies at the dealerships anymore. A lot of years have passed. Also, make sure the boot cover comes with the car. They are expensive and a must for topless driving. Kind of a pain to use each time but so worth it.
04-25-2011, 10:26 PM
#56
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Well, I think you can pull a few things out of all this...
1) Can't really go wrong either way.
2) Go with your guy, unless you are in Minnesota or Alaska or something...then just get a coupe.
3) Ignore the values, as many are confusing the increased (relative) value of the wide body as a coupe in general.
4) Goes without saying...get the PPI and go with what you love.
1) Can't really go wrong either way.
2) Go with your guy, unless you are in Minnesota or Alaska or something...then just get a coupe.
3) Ignore the values, as many are confusing the increased (relative) value of the wide body as a coupe in general.
4) Goes without saying...get the PPI and go with what you love.
04-26-2011, 12:23 AM
#57
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04-26-2011, 02:09 AM
#58
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I love my cab and if someone offered me an identical coupe I would not get it. I love convertibles and own three of them. Are you one of those convertible people? Only you know. If so, don't make a mistake and get a coupe. So many when you cruise the 'twisties' on a day with clear blue skies from both bikers and other car nuts. It always makes my wife and I smile as we cruise with the sun shining down and wind blowing through with the sweet sound of the 993 engine. Priceless!
when you cruise the 'twisties' on a day with clear blue skies from both bikers and other car nuts. It always makes my wife and I smile as we cruise with the sun shining down and wind blowing through with the sweet sound of the 993 engine. Priceless!When it comes to the performance side, yes my coupe in its current form is a better handler but its current form includes triple adjustable JRZ's... At a street level the cabrio is very competent and my baby has won quite a few autox's in her time sometimes falling only behind GT3's for the fastest time of the day... Not a slouch for sure!
So to the OP, if you enjoy a cabrio go for it. Besides when you drive you dont get to admire the lines of the coupe
04-26-2011, 11:19 AM
#60
Three Wheelin'
I was personally set on getting a WB coupe, but the compromise at home was the CFO wanted a cab if getting an extra car. Well, she doesn't drive it (feels it is a little too rough), but I have no regrets on the direction we took. No, the cab doesn't have all of the classic lines of the coupe, but it is still a thing of beauty, and when behind the wheel with the top down gives great joy. That said, my biggest gripe about the car is that you have to manually put the boot cover on the top--other than that, I love it!
The amount that a particular car is worth is really determined by the buyer--how much are you willing to pay without feeling cheated. I ended up going the guards red route as the car was well sorted out with great upgrades and an attractive price (triple black would have been a bit more if found). 2 years into my ownership I love the color (and the fact that I don't have to wipe it down 24/7 to keep the dust off).
Drive the cars that appeal to you and use the feel of them to help you decide--whether a coupe or cab, there is a compromise involved at first, then it is forgotten when you are behind the wheel.
The amount that a particular car is worth is really determined by the buyer--how much are you willing to pay without feeling cheated. I ended up going the guards red route as the car was well sorted out with great upgrades and an attractive price (triple black would have been a bit more if found). 2 years into my ownership I love the color (and the fact that I don't have to wipe it down 24/7 to keep the dust off).
Drive the cars that appeal to you and use the feel of them to help you decide--whether a coupe or cab, there is a compromise involved at first, then it is forgotten when you are behind the wheel.