BobTheZealot

So, I've had three cars sent in for a PPI. In all cases, the shops (three different ones) advised against buying. (Maybe I just choose poorly .)

Now, clearly enough people are getting PPIs done and buying 993s to indicate that plenty of shops give cars a clean bill of health.

Still, it got me thinking whether shops are being conservative. Is there is a systemic bias for shops to err on the side of caution and advise passing on cars?

Don't get me wrong, I think the three shops have been thorough and fantastic to deal with. But it would be understandable if they were cautious. After all, they earn $200 to $300 but open the door to a big liability if they ok the car. If the seller is a big dealer, they've got a problem on the other side if they recommend against a purchase, but in other cases it would make economic sense to be conservative.

The PPI provides a lot of data on the car. If you are an enthusiast, you can draw your own conclusions from the data. I am not, so I defer to the shop. But are there others on here that decided based on data to go against the recommendation of the PPI shop?

skl2

What are the reasons they are giving you as to why not purchase? I just had a PPI done and bought the car and once they went thru the list, I was able to determine what is a "big" deal and what is something tha can easily be fixed. You have to expect some things are not perfect with a 13-16 year old car.

justin993

what were the major issues with these cars in question ?

MarkD

IMO, unless there is a major problem (frame damage, engine about to grenade, etc.), a shop shouldn't recommend to buy or not buy.

The shop's role is to gather information and help you make and informed decision. Uncover the risks and inform you of the potential costs.

Very few 993s will be absolutely, 100% perfect.

Good luck with the hunt!

SeanR

As a shop owner, when it comes to a PPI, I will search out each and every potential issue with a car and list it on the paper work. 1/2 the things might be stuff that just is not perfect, but the reason I list it is I can't afford the time or the trouble if an owner comes back saying something was not exactly as they "thought it should be"

Gouge out of a plastic runner on the bottom of the seat? listed.

It's a CYA thing for us, so yes, overly cautious is the general rule. I would never say yes or no to purchasing it though. I'd leave that up to the person.

Now, as to the customer side of it. I've seen a few people shy away from a car because there was too many things listed that I caught, typically minor things. It would have been a car I'd have purchased with no issue if I had been in the market. Sometimes it's a double edged sword.

Makmov

+1

Aircooled Dave

I'm actually surprised a shop actually told you not to get the car. I never had an expectation that a shop would tell me whether to or not to buy. This is a personal decision that comes down to a lot of factors. Maybe the engine needs a top-end rebuild, but the price is adjusted accordingly. Or maybe the color/options are just what you want even though it has some cosmetic issues. There are lots of angles to this and ultimately the buyer is the only person who is really capable of making that determination.

The shop should provide as much detail about the car as possible. Afterall, you're paying them out of your pocket to be thorough and I woudln't expect anything less. The purpose of a PPI is to help you make an educated decision based on a professional evaluation. What you do with that information is up to you.

That said, most cars have some issues here/there. These are 13+ year old cars. Some are definitely in better shape than others, but expecting absolute perfection is a bit unrealistic. So in that sense, I do think you need to apply a little bit of sugar (or salt if you prefer) to the PPI. How much you add depends on your taste.

95 NC 993

BobThe Zealot, you have hit on the thing that makes everyone human. Everyone is different and you will get different responses each time. Of course they are worried about future liability. So much so that some places will not recommend ANY car! Others, like SeanR will let the customer decide which course of action to take. PPI is a good thing if used as a 'tool' as part of your purchase, just like a Carfax. Neither is 100% reliable but a red flag that is found sure can be helpful. Buying from a dealer with a fine reputation or a private seller that obviously really took care of his car (maintenance records, etc...) are the keys to the purchase. Anything can grenade on the way home from a purchase but these general rules of thumb help out in the decision process. I personally bought from a well respected dealer and never had the PPI done. I am 2+ years into ownership with nothing but basic maintenance issues (oil change, pollen filters, noisy a/c fan, minor stuff) for a 16 year old car. Not bad!

Ed Hughes

I don't think the shop should make recommendations for buy/no buy. They should call it like they see it, and if asked, provide you with estimate on how to make something right. Then, if you want to try and work it out with the seller, you do.

The bottom line is we're talking cars (993s) that are at least 13 years old now. Even on a beautiful example, there will probably be something that is needed. The potential buyer determines whether he pulls the trigger based on what the shop tells him, the price, and perhaps the flexibility of the owner, and maybe his gut instinct.

BobTheZealot

First was a high-mileage blue car in AZ. PPI revealed leaking valve and timing chain cover gaskets, which the dealer said had just been fixed. Also needed a steering rack and didn't have any records. In hindsight, I should have pulled the trigger on that, but didn't have the courage since it was literally the first car I'd seriously looked at. It's now on sale on CL for $5k more (being flipped by another dealer). In this instance, I asked the shop to opine since I didn't know how to interpret the data, and he said he would not buy because of lack of records. Again, knowing what I do now, for the price, I should have just gone in.

Second PPI revealed paint work done to several panels on the car, whereas the dealer made a selling point of saying there hadn't been any except on the hood. The car also appeared to have been previously set up for track use (eyelets, harness, carpets removed, etc.) whereas the dealer said it had only been to three DE events. PPI shop advised me to pass right off the bat. Car is still for sale at same price.

Third PPI revealed, among other things, two badly leaking cylinders. In this case, the PPI saved me a lot of money in the long run. Cylinders 1 and 4 had compression of 90 and 125 psi (others at 180 psi). Shop just said the car needed a lot of work. PO was very forthcoming, reasonable and genuine - I believe he had no idea about the top end needing a rebuild.

Anyway, my point was more in general. The problem is that I don't know enough about these cars, so I have to defer to someone who does (the shop, usually). And, I can completely see the economic case for shops to be conservative. PPI in case #3 was a life-saver, and perhaps in #2 too. As Sean says, I should know going in that they are going to list EVERYTHING that's wrong - which is a good thing - but I shouldn't necessarily let that put me off. To a first-time buyer, the long list of "problems" coming out of a thorough PPI can be intimidating .

g_murray

The majority of us here have had to 'shop around' for our cars. Yes, some of us have been lucky on the 'first try' but the majority have come 'this close' to settling and then backed off, only to search again.
I don't think you're being overly cautious at all. Porsche parts ARE very, very expensive and the last thing you need is to 'buy a pig in a poke'.
I would, if I were you, be glad that the EXPERTS thought that the prospective cars were not worth buying ...after all, that's why you engaged their $ervices!
Trust me, THE ONE *will* come across your radar screen and you'll be glad you passed on the 'others'.
Patience, my friend!
Cordially,
Gerry

Ed Hughes

I don't think anyone could fault your choices on passing. Although, not knowing the price on the first, it may have been worth it, if the price was right. Maybe the guy who told you not to buy it, did, and he's flipping it for +$5K.

Your experiences show that a PPI is pretty good insurance. One can also see that not all dealers are forthright, or know what the hell they are talking about.

911Dave

In my opinion, a shop should only reveal the issues that they find, never to make a buy/no buy recommendation. Even a car that has monster issues can still be a good buy if the price is right.

Stealth 993

Buy a car from Rennlist!!!!

With Porsches you kind of get what you pay for, so if you are looking into cheaper cars, they will need some work.

When I was looking my shop also told me a couple of cars were not a good buy. On one, they called after plugging in the code reader & had 17 codes. I passed on that, & didn't have to pay for the PPI.

It also doesn't hurt to ask the shops doing the PPI if they know of any good 993's for sale. That is how I found my C4, after the last PPI, they told me it was about to go on the market, & I would not find a better one. He said if anything went wrong with it int he first year, the shop would pay to fix it. I got it, & didn't get a PPI done, but did pay a little more then market.

craig001

Well, I will go against the flow here and say that I would hope that a shop would tell me to pass on a car if there were issues. You did not mention if the cars are local to you or not. All the PPI's I had done that said pass were out of town. One was in Port Richey Fl, another in Louisana and one in Austin. Sometimes in your conversation with the shop you find that the owner over-hyped the condition of the car (a DP 911 convertible in Austin and a SC'ed 993 Targa in FL) and one said to think twice and the other told me that they wouldn't buy the car - that's what I am paying them for - to be my eyes and ears. One thing I have noticed is that some shops have premade forms they use which is really nice - body walk throughs like a rental car turn-in, compression/leak-downs, brake pad and rotor thickness, lights working or out, etc. But yes, I feel that if I ask "would you buy this car?" I expect an honest answer. I know if Omega Motorsports had used a form and given me more info I would have offered less and posibbly passed on the 96 I recently picked up. So things you expect to do no matter what when the car arrives, but other things are nice to have a choice as to when to do them.