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Old 03-29-2011, 05:08 AM
  #16  
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:34 AM
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I am told (and have some evidence to indicate this is true) that unless a sworn officer personally presents the citation to you, it is not valid. My son and wife have had these camera tickets delivered by mail and have ignored them both--one in AZ and one in OH. NO problem with subsequent state registration. This has been verified by an AZ local cop too.

Does anyone have any real knowledge about the legality and enforcability of these citations? No Philadelphia lawyers need apply please.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:35 AM
  #18  
95 NC 993
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I'm really sorry about the predicament of living in your state where the revenue producers prey on the good honest citizens who commit an occasional traffic infraction. $500+ is legalized theft. I can almost assure you that you will pay more for this breach of the law than many criminals out there. They get probation and don't have the ability to pay the fines. I appreciate your post though since I will be visiting family and friends in CA and OR this September. $500 can still buy a lot of things. Thanks for posting.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:59 AM
  #19  
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Check out National Motorists Association Website (www.motorists.org) for possible defense options (if any).
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:51 PM
  #20  
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I am told (and have some evidence to indicate this is true) that unless a sworn officer personally presents the citation to you, it is not valid. My son and wife have had these camera tickets delivered by mail and have ignored them both--one in AZ and one in OH.
\

I was told something similiar by a lawyer friend , that SOMETIMES they just let it go because it's not worth the time/effort. However IF they do decide to serve me at my house it's probably going to end up much much worse. Not worth the risk IMHO since I am home just about every weekend. You do not need to be served by an officer, it can be anyone.

I want to fight this ticket, not because I am innocent but because I think the punishment does not fit the infraction and because I see the whole premise of red light cameras as a violation of the due process of law. Not being able to face my accusor AND being convicted by a private company sours me to just pay the fine and move on.

Sanyata, yes there were two different pay scales, one for points and one for no points. I think the difference was about $50 but I don't have the ticket in front of me.

Has anyone here had any good experiences with a local traffic lawyer?
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:51 PM
  #21  
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Default Agree. This is legalized theft. Join Trapster if you haven't yet

I have no problem with a valid ticket for a real infraction. I do have a problem with the amount in this particular case. $500+ for a rolling right turn is theft as far as I'm concerned.

That's why in addition to my V1, I keep the Trapster App running now anytime I'm driving. I not only know where live police are setting traps, but I get this woman's voice that let's me know anytime I'm approaching a red light camera. I like the reminders.

http://trapster.com/

I just recalled this article about how to tell the difference between red light cameras and traffic cameras. It's one of the articles in the "blog" section of Trapster.

http://blog.trapster.com/2011/02/18/...ras/#more-1250
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:24 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by autobonrun View Post
I have no problem with a valid ticket for a real infraction. I do have a problem with the amount in this particular case. $500+ for a rolling right turn is theft as far as I'm concerned.
I don't think anyone will argue about a real citation issued by a real officer at a balanced, fair amount.
I could never issue a citation for this amount of money and I doubt many officers could. Seeing a mom with her two kids in an 8-10 year old car and fine her $500??? Not a chance, BUT yes, I could write her in a heartbeat at $50 - $75 to stress the importance of obeying traffic laws for her and her kids safety. I was always taught (from recruit school on) that traffic enforcement was to educate with warnings and citations depending on the seriousness of the violation. I carried that thought process through my entire career which included a 2 year stint in STEP (select traffic enforcement program). That apparently is 'old school thought' and why there are cameras now, to take the human factor out of it and raise revenue at outrageous prices. There is absolutely nothing right about traffic cameras. The government spin they put out in promoting it is nonsense. If anything it takes the officers out of the loop which is very bad. How do you get the drivers with suspended licenses and valid warrants off the roads otherwise. Actual traffic stops is how this is done. Again, thanks to the OP for the post.

Last edited by 95 NC 993; 04-01-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:46 AM
  #23  
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We have the same thing here but the fine is MUCH less. I got a (warning) ticket from the city after the system was installed but while it was still in the grace period, so no actual ticket.

What irritates the hell out of me is the construction (dump) trucks that run those red light cameras all day long. They know they don't have a (visible) license plate so they act like it's a free pass. The consequences of them hitting someone are much greater than if I hit someone.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:10 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 993BillW View Post
We have the same thing here but the fine is MUCH less. I got a (warning) ticket from the city after the system was installed but while it was still in the grace period, so no actual ticket.

What irritates the hell out of me is the construction (dump) trucks that run those red light cameras all day long. They know they don't have a (visible) license plate so they act like it's a free pass. The consequences of them hitting someone are much greater than if I hit someone.
Ahhhh, one of my favorite citations to write - not red lights BUT uncovered loads on dump trucks. I used to get so many from motorists when I pulled one over that was spilling rocks and gravel everywhere.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #25  
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Well,
I spoke with a traffic attorney here in San Diego. He had pretty bleak news and it looks like I might just mail my greedy city a check and take traffic school. He said that the City of Vista has a very strict policy on these tickets and that the local judges are very unlikely to lower the fine amount or reduce the charge to something less costly. This kind of makes sense because the city is broke and we already have a 1% higher sales tax than most of the county/state. The attorney did say he was looking for a client to help challenge the legality of traffic lights at a state level but I don't have deep enough pockets to get involved at. It's too bad a rich person hasn't gotten upset enough to really challenge this issue up to the supreme court level.

Forbes did a study recently and ranked the top 10 best and worst states for drivers. Imagine who came in Dead Last.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/08/ins...s-drivers.html

Okay, that's enough whining about this! Thank you to everyone who responded.
- Peter
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:36 PM
  #26  
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Hey if it makes you feel any better Pete, I just got one of those pesky red light camera citations on my way to work in Beverly Hills. Care to guess how much? Right in the same ballpark as you PLUS they charged me another $10 just to pay it on the phone with my account info. I thought that paying online or on the phone was supposed to SAVE them money?!?! WTF! Adding insult to injury...they apparently moved the photo equipment from the light only a week after I was captured on camera!
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:58 PM
  #27  
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Its not all that great in Texas either. I got a ticket about a month ago. I came to a full stop at a red light and turned right. No traffic to be seen anywhere. The cop that pulled me over ran the red light to pull me over. I failed to use my turn signal. That ticket cost me $250. I always use my turn signal when I change lanes but I just got lazy and didnt use it on this occasion. The cop acted like a *****. He wanted to look into my car and used it as an excuse to do so. I was in my STI and he wanted to know why I had modified it like that. I told him it was bone stock and he thought I was lying to him and wrote me a ticket.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:08 PM
  #28  
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Default It may not be a moving violation (i.e.- no points)

I received a camera ticket for speeding in a school zone - in State of Washington (town of Lynnwood actually). It said $250!!! (36 in a 30 mph zone - but when school lights flashing (which they were), 20 mph).

I noted it was the middle of the day - not a person or another car in sight (in the photos - which was my recollection). So I decided to appear on court.

On that day, I was one of about 300 people there. The courtroom and entire floor was overflooded with people. Fortunately, my case was heard 3rd that day. At the begnning of court, they made an announcement: "A traffic camera offense is like a parking ticket - as there was no officer present. If you pay your fine, no points on your license"

At that point, about half the folks waiting left (is it worth 2-3 hours of your time to "fight" the ticket? Apparently not.

In my own case, I objected to the $250 fine. When my case was called, I simply told the judge: "I can't object to what the camera said. No doubt I was doing 36 mph (in my 993). But on that day I recall not a person nor another car in the area - middle of the day when school was in session. I was lost in thought and not paying attention".

The judge reviewed the video and agreed with me. He knocked the fine down to $50 and I was out of there.

I thought about the 300 folks who chose to appear on that day. It was clear. This was a matter of raising revenue - and had nothing to do with traffic safety. The fact that half the 300 or so folks left when they announced "no points" proves it to me.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:13 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by porschemikeandnancy View Post
I received a camera ticket for speeding in a school zone - in State of Washington (town of Lynnwood actually). It said $250!!! (36 in a 30 mph zone - but when school lights flashing (which they were), 20 mph).

I noted it was the middle of the day - not a person or another car in sight (in the photos - which was my recollection). So I decided to appear on court.

On that day, I was one of about 300 people there. The courtroom and entire floor was overflooded with people. Fortunately, my case was heard 3rd that day. At the begnning of court, they made an announcement: "A traffic camera offense is like a parking ticket - as there was no officer present. If you pay your fine, no points on your license"

At that point, about half the folks waiting left (is it worth 2-3 hours of your time to "fight" the ticket? Apparently not.

In my own case, I objected to the $250 fine. When my case was called, I simply told the judge: "I can't object to what the camera said. No doubt I was doing 36 mph (in my 993). But on that day I recall not a person nor another car in the area - middle of the day when school was in session. I was lost in thought and not paying attention".

The judge reviewed the video and agreed with me. He knocked the fine down to $50 and I was out of there.

I thought about the 300 folks who chose to appear on that day. It was clear. This was a matter of raising revenue - and had nothing to do with traffic safety. The fact that half the 300 or so folks left when they announced "no points" proves it to me.
You're lucky.

In the State Of California, that would be a point on your license, unless you were eligble for traffic school, which they, of course, charge you extra for, on top of the $500 fine.

Good times.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:19 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 2ndof2 View Post
I thought that paying online or on the phone was supposed to SAVE them money?!?! WTF!
It does save them money....it just doesn't save YOU any money

And they appreciate your additional $10 on top of their cost savings.
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