Spidey 993

Thanks Robin for the great input and now I understand why Nile13 said what he did.

Question: Discussing costs, knowing that you do your own wrench work, how much do you have into this
car buying it originally for $137k plus all the maintenance? And then how much could you sell it for?

I know that its not always about the money, and realizing a dream (mine as well), but I am curious like the OP,
how to compare the costs (purchase price, maintenance, depreciation) versus a 993.

Thanks -
Tony

Falcondrivr

After reading this thread, I want a Ferrari. But only after I can afford to have it serviced by someone else and not care about the money.
Note: I will not park it in front of Starbucks...In fact, I think I would probably try to drive it mostly out of town. I'm not sure I could stand to be seen in it by anyone I know.

Robin 993DX

Tony,

I would say probably in the range of $3k-$4k into the car in two years, just in parts, tools and fluids, not including my time.

My car on a good sunny day is probably only worth $90k retail.

This is the first time the Ferrari market took such a big hit due to the recent economic downfall. So a good time to pick up one at a good deal, if this is something on the back of your mind.

Basically you just can't and don't want to care about the cost associated in owning one. The old saying of "If you have to ask you can't afford it" does apply in this case.

Robin 993DX

Dan,

Yes I have seen this method of testing the tension. And there were several other people used non Clavis tool. But I didn't want to take a chance on a $20k engine rebuild... So I went with what's suggested on the shop manual, figured it was cheap insurance.

Spidey 993

Wow, I think I fall into that category of "If you have to ask you can't afford it".

Still its hard to put a price on a dream and I've known many men chasing many dreams that cost them 10x more. At least you won't have the regret of never owning one. Beautiful car!

Thanks for sharing

cgfen

LOL
thanks Robin.
I'm going to forward this to some locals.

best wishes

Craig

Robin 993DX

please post wisely, I don't want to get flammed on Fchat... LOL!

Kika

I forget where I heard this, but I think about it every time I consider shopping for an F-car:

Ferrari: Sells cars so they can race.
Porsche: Races so they can sell cars.

OTOH:

guy gets in a new Ferrari, the salesman tells him to breathe in deeply through his nose,

"Smell That?"

"huh? what ...the leather...?"

"Nope....that's the smell of panties coming off."

Robin 993DX

Saw a good one posted today on fchat regarding cost of ownership. Here it is copy and pasted from fchat. Noticed how he depicted Porsche owners (bold and underline).


First, let me say that I am not trying to make buying a Ferrari only about the financials. This is just a fun post to share some useful info I've collected from the threads here, and an opportunity for others to correct any mistaken assumptions on my part. I realize buying a Ferrari is about emotions, but your $ needs to be able to support it still. The following is a writeup for my estimations on the cost of owning a 2005/2006 F430 F1, purchased now with cash at $130k with 8k existing miles.

Basics/Estimations:

Purchase Price: $130k
Sales Tax (7%): $9,100 one time cost (adjust as needed for you)
Annual Miles Driven: 4,000 annual, for 5 years = 20,000. (This estimation does not include expenses/maintenance associated with track use; If you are concerned about financials and want to track a car, then buy a Porsche, not a Ferrari (or better, buy both!)).
5 year holding period depreciation: Sale with 28k miles in 2016 = $50k estimated depreciation, sale at $80k. This is just a rough guess based on where a current 11 year old (2000) 360 is priced.
Loan Costs: Pay in cash, so none here. If you finance/lease, remember to add these in.
Annual registration fees: None for me in Ohio, but if you are in CA or another state that does this, I think it could be as high as $2k annually, which would add over $10k to your 5 year cost. Ouch.

Maintenance:

Clutch: Est. life of 15k miles, one replacement needed at $6,500
Tires: Est. life of 12,000 miles, two full replacements over ownership costing $3,000
Annual Service/fluids: Oil/filter and brake fluid: Est. $1,000 annual, perhaps can do DIY if so inclined for $300. Total = $5,000 over 5 years.
Front Brake pads (steel brakes, NOT CCB): Not too sure about this, but I thought I've seen that front pads can be done for $1k? If so, probably need at least new front pads over course of ownership.
Belts: F430 is chain driven, so no cost here (compared to $3k per 3 years for 360 I think; In the big picture not that big of a deal when comparing the two models).
Misc annual maintenance: $400 annually planned, $2,000 cost over 5 years - This includes things like power window motors, alignment, ect.

Repairs:

*I'm not including any of the repairs costs in the cost of ownership as they cannot be planned for. You may have no problem, or you may have a significant one, but a $15k side fund for repairs is advised.

F1 Pump: Not common problem, but I've seen numbers from $3.5k to $11k depending on the acutators as well.

Full Brake or Rotor Replacement: For street driving, I've read all you really need is front pads. While CCM brakes seem to cost about $35,000 for all four corners, I think steel is perhaps $7k? I'm not too sure about the details here, but this will mostly depend on if you track the car (in which case maintenance will be much higher too).

What else to add here as considerations of possible/likely repairs during 5 years of ownership?


Insurance:

Assuming this is your 3rd car with 4k miles driven annually: $750 annual - total over 5 years = $3,750 . This could be higher for some driver's, but it is what Geico quoted me.

Fuel:

20,000 miles at an average of (hopefully!) $3 per gallon at 15mpg average = $4,000 over 5 years.

Opportunity Cost:

This isn't going to be included in the total either, since it varies so much from person to person, but is still a significant financial impact considering the six figure price tag. In fact, opportunity cost is perhaps the main reason I personally am likely to hold off on buying until next spring, considering I have a extremely high opportunity cost of capital right now which will likely be much lower next year.

Total:

In total, the costs over the course of 5 years, ignoring unexpected repairs and opportunity cost of your money, as well as ignoring loan/lease costs and annual registration fees if your state requires this, total: $50k (depreciation) + $9.1k (sales tax) + $6.5k (clutch) + $3k (2 sets tires) + $5k (annual service) + $1k (front brake pads) + Misc. maintenance ($2k) + $3,750 (insurance) + $4k fuel = $84,350.

So $84,350 of actual costs to own a $130k F430 for 5 years with 4k annual miles driven is my estimation. Again, keep in mind you should have an extra $15k fund for potential major repairs, but these seem to be rare on the F430 model. Note also that at only 5% return on your cash, opportunity cost of $130k over 5 years would add over $32,500 to your real cost.

This might hurt then: 20k miles driven at $84,350 cost = ~$4.25 per mile. Assuming my numbers are close, and how this ignores opportunity cost and major repairs, and is on a 6 year old Ferrari, I think the "$1 per mile ownership cost" is way off. So, driving 15 miles each way to dinner; that'll cost you $127.50 before you pay for your dinner. . Of course, this also ignores the "artwork value" of staring in awe of your Ferrari while parked.

I look forward to comments, and will be happy to tweak things if my assumptions are mistaken or I've left out major items. I hope this gives a decent picture to those wondering if "I can afford a F430." Plan on $85k-$120k of overall costs including repairs/opportunity cost right now. Personally, I think its definately worth it, and am just waiting for my own optimal timing to match up, but in no case do I think I'll be able to wait longer than next spring .

timothymoffat

Great thread with some meaningful insight into the cost of Ferrari ownership. Looks like Ferrari ownership will remain a dream for some years to come.

Arena993

Reminds me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmbT...e_gdata_player

Mike

IXLR8

Since you own one, I guess you have the right to say that. Your feelings were related to me by an Italian living in Italy, who worked in the auto industry...see post #26.

When I saw your pics of the clutch job on another site, I'm sorry to say I was very disappointed in the quality of everything under the skin. It looked very kit-carish...sort of like a Lotus Esprit.

The only thing Ferrari has going for it is its styling which is 100% (except for that batmobile looking model...Enzo?)

Robin, thanks for your P-Car site which I heard is now run by Mike. I've registered and made a correction the other day.

Safemoney

Wow - didn't realize the thread would generate this much attention. I appreciate all the input. I think it's the dream aspect of ownership for me. I understand it's not that practical. But neither is having a 993, 4.5 yr old and a newborn.

I still just love the look of the 348 and the 360 (with some aftermarket wheels). Actually making the leap and buying one...probably going to waste my money on something else.

Robin 993DX

As some have mentioned I am fairly mellow in person, all of the information I spoke of regarding the Ferraris are based on my personal passionate feelings towards the car. Isn't after all what being anything related to Italians all about? From art, opera, food, mafia and to their cars. So I may have been slightly out of character.

I am not sure what you meant by p-car.com site run by mike? I am still the soul owner of the p-car.com and was not aware of that transition. I do know that Mike had requested for my permission to use contents from the p-car.com site. Was not aware there was a transfer?

Also I do not require any registration, as I am a firm believer of "public domain", which means all data and information should be shared as public information, free of any obligation and cost.

Thanks

Robin 993DX

Prior to buying the Ferrari I didn't think I could afford one too, but you just have to imagine in your mind you actually own one, imagine driving it and soon you will have one in the garage. Visualize, experience and then enjoy.

Some people will know exactly what I am referring to.