Comparative Ownership Cost?
02-01-2011, 08:48 PM
#16
Halcyon -
I like your analysis and think it's pretty solid. I actually think that the proposed depreciation will not be as bad as you predict for the 993 unless the economy continues to decline. $25K buys a really nice driver 993 and if you keep it that way I suspect it would still be worth $20K after 5 years.
Here's another data point:
I bought my car 4 1/2 years ago with 90K miles for $28.5. It was very well cared for but not a garage queen. I drive it daily but it's not my only car. I have put 40K miles on it since I bought it. It has been very dependable but I have done all of the "expected" repairs such as alternator, steering rack, fuel pump, etc. It has also had 1 major service including plug wires and 3 minor services. I have spend about $4400 on maintenance and repairs which is just shy of $1K/yr. However, nearly all of the work was done by myself so there is no expense here for shop labor. It is all very straightforward and the DIY articles are great. If you can't do the work yourself, I think this figure could increase by as much as 60%.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with very acceptable oil consumption. I am currently planning for a top-end rebuild in the next year or so as I know it's inevitable but right now consumption is 1500-2500miles/qt depending on the driving cycle.
If I sold this car today, I would likely not let it go for less than $24k (it does have several popular upgrades that are not factored into the maintenance cost but do add value). Without mods, it's likely still a $20K car in this depressed economy.
One thing that is bugging me though is the question of a 993 or C300??? These are very different cars that you wouldn't normally cross shop. I think it would be best to determine what you really want out of your next car. If you really love the 993 and don't mind a lack of creature comforts, the 993 is very suitable as a daily driver but will be very raw compared to the isolated comfort and quiet of the Benz with it's litany of electronic goodies.
I like your analysis and think it's pretty solid. I actually think that the proposed depreciation will not be as bad as you predict for the 993 unless the economy continues to decline. $25K buys a really nice driver 993 and if you keep it that way I suspect it would still be worth $20K after 5 years.
Here's another data point:
I bought my car 4 1/2 years ago with 90K miles for $28.5. It was very well cared for but not a garage queen. I drive it daily but it's not my only car. I have put 40K miles on it since I bought it. It has been very dependable but I have done all of the "expected" repairs such as alternator, steering rack, fuel pump, etc. It has also had 1 major service including plug wires and 3 minor services. I have spend about $4400 on maintenance and repairs which is just shy of $1K/yr. However, nearly all of the work was done by myself so there is no expense here for shop labor. It is all very straightforward and the DIY articles are great. If you can't do the work yourself, I think this figure could increase by as much as 60%.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with very acceptable oil consumption. I am currently planning for a top-end rebuild in the next year or so as I know it's inevitable but right now consumption is 1500-2500miles/qt depending on the driving cycle.
If I sold this car today, I would likely not let it go for less than $24k (it does have several popular upgrades that are not factored into the maintenance cost but do add value). Without mods, it's likely still a $20K car in this depressed economy.
One thing that is bugging me though is the question of a 993 or C300??? These are very different cars that you wouldn't normally cross shop. I think it would be best to determine what you really want out of your next car. If you really love the 993 and don't mind a lack of creature comforts, the 993 is very suitable as a daily driver but will be very raw compared to the isolated comfort and quiet of the Benz with it's litany of electronic goodies.
02-01-2011, 11:25 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just because a car has higher mileage does'nt mean it has to have a top end rebuild. The key is going to be how much oil does it use and does the car pass CA emissions?
The cost of a rebuild is closer to $5K. These cars are not cheap to own unless you do most of your own maintenance / repairs.
Owning a 993 on the cheap won't be good for the car or your wallet.
Don't let the 6 speeders deter you, the tip is a fun car to drive - in manual mode.
Good luck on your search.
The cost of a rebuild is closer to $5K. These cars are not cheap to own unless you do most of your own maintenance / repairs.
Owning a 993 on the cheap won't be good for the car or your wallet.
Don't let the 6 speeders deter you, the tip is a fun car to drive - in manual mode.
Good luck on your search.
I shall learn to do those maintenance and repair
they aren't too hard right? ._. and thanks, i had been browsing around ebay craiglist everyday for a while now
Mine has 150,000 miles with no rebuild. It still breaks the tires loose in 1st gear straight line acceleration when I hit 3800 RPM.
Any used Merc will cost you thousands in maintenance. By far the highest cost of ownership of any car I'v ever owned out of warranty. (I currently have an '04 ML500. POS!)
Try Cars Dawydiak in SF.
Any used Merc will cost you thousands in maintenance. By far the highest cost of ownership of any car I'v ever owned out of warranty. (I currently have an '04 ML500. POS!)
Try Cars Dawydiak in SF.
but speaking of maintenance... a 07' or 08' merc would still have warranty and/or CPO for a little while ... hmmm....
wow, it breaks the tires loose? who cares. How much oil does it use?
heres the thing:
People here are delusional. They may fix every little rock chip, but they'll pour a quart of oil in every 600 miles and act like nothing is wrong.
Sure, there are some 100k motors that are tight as a drum, use little oil, and have excellent leakdown figures.
$1k a year will most likely be low, especially for the first few years as you make things right.
check strap repairs, fixing any leaks, possible leaking steering rack,, new plugs and wires, etc.
Parts, even with a discount, can be stupid expensive.
Even more important, you will get destroyed on labor if you can't do a lot of stuff yourself.
For instance, lets say a standard 60k mile service:
Plugs and wires: Parts cost about $550, Labor about 3-4 hours so $350
Dizzy caps and rotors: $170 parts, another 1 hour labor so $100
You've exceeded $1k already, and you still haven't addressed fuel filters, air filters, belts, fluids, etc.
I don't care what anybody here says about only needing an oil change once a year, these cars are bloody expensive to fix.
Now, don't listen to falcon, he bought an american built mercedes with a history of bad reliability. The C300 is a relatively simple car, and the 204s have minimal expensive faults. Service is retardedly simple and can be done by anyone with basically no mechanical talent. Parts are expensive, but not porsche expensive, and they are easy to get in a day.
Mercs will kill you on depreciation, but on a lower end model like the C300, if you keep it in good shape, you'll be fine.
the 993 will be about 1000 times more fun than the C300, but your post focused on the financials.
If you buy the 993, you have to have the "its only money" attitude and you have to love it, or your experience will quickly be ruined.
oh, and I can't stress this enough, GET A PPI
heres the thing:
People here are delusional. They may fix every little rock chip, but they'll pour a quart of oil in every 600 miles and act like nothing is wrong.
Sure, there are some 100k motors that are tight as a drum, use little oil, and have excellent leakdown figures.
$1k a year will most likely be low, especially for the first few years as you make things right.
check strap repairs, fixing any leaks, possible leaking steering rack,, new plugs and wires, etc.
Parts, even with a discount, can be stupid expensive.
Even more important, you will get destroyed on labor if you can't do a lot of stuff yourself.
For instance, lets say a standard 60k mile service:
Plugs and wires: Parts cost about $550, Labor about 3-4 hours so $350
Dizzy caps and rotors: $170 parts, another 1 hour labor so $100
You've exceeded $1k already, and you still haven't addressed fuel filters, air filters, belts, fluids, etc.
I don't care what anybody here says about only needing an oil change once a year, these cars are bloody expensive to fix.
Now, don't listen to falcon, he bought an american built mercedes with a history of bad reliability. The C300 is a relatively simple car, and the 204s have minimal expensive faults. Service is retardedly simple and can be done by anyone with basically no mechanical talent. Parts are expensive, but not porsche expensive, and they are easy to get in a day.
Mercs will kill you on depreciation, but on a lower end model like the C300, if you keep it in good shape, you'll be fine.
the 993 will be about 1000 times more fun than the C300, but your post focused on the financials.
If you buy the 993, you have to have the "its only money" attitude and you have to love it, or your experience will quickly be ruined.
oh, and I can't stress this enough, GET A PPI
i think the depreciation on the merc is still the major financial reason for me to get a 993 . i just checked what a 02-03' merc c280 and they are like under 10k. that drop from 25k to 10k in will-be 8yr car scares me.
I have to agree that 993 is 1000 times more fun, and I also agree that PPI is a must ( for any used car anyway )
An $18K 993 scares me. If you can stretch your budget to $28K, you could find a pretty nice one, especially since you want a Tip. To me, the trick would be finding one that's enthusiast-owned and well-sorted. I don't have all the data in front of me, but I expect that most of the those are 6 speeds, so you'll need some patience to find a well cared-for Tip.
Also, a '95 is less likely to need a mandatory top end rebuild. The valve guides still wear, but you don't get a Check Engine Light.
If you just want a "nice car" to drive around, the M-B is the clear winner for its practicality. But if you're a sports car enthusiast, the 993 is a slam-dunk, even if your total cost of ownership for the 993 is, say, +$3,000 vs the M-B. If you agree that the costs are similar, the cars are apples and oranges.
Also, a '95 is less likely to need a mandatory top end rebuild. The valve guides still wear, but you don't get a Check Engine Light.
If you just want a "nice car" to drive around, the M-B is the clear winner for its practicality. But if you're a sports car enthusiast, the 993 is a slam-dunk, even if your total cost of ownership for the 993 is, say, +$3,000 vs the M-B. If you agree that the costs are similar, the cars are apples and oranges.
95' is less likely to need a top end rebuild ? because of the lack of variocam? But then i heard the later years have better electronics for the tiptronic. and i heard the check engine light, at least it wont light up so it'll pass smog, but the problem actually still exist under the hood (?)
I can't really say i'm a sports car enthusiast as i dont go to track, but I sure do want to look stylish and not the same as everybody else who drives normal mercs and bimmers
sounds like even IF it cost more, 993 still justify the cost eh Drama drama....
It all depends on the car and if you hit the slippery slope. The slippery slope is more expensive than the upkeep.
He is right...if you can do the easy repairs yourself, it will not be that expensive. I bought my car with 28k miles and it needed all the little things to get it right. Plugs, wires, cap, rotors, suspension and filters.
Just get a PPI ....the driving experience is worth the busted nuckles or the $$ for upkeep.
It all depends on the car and if you hit the slippery slope. The slippery slope is more expensive than the upkeep.
He is right...if you can do the easy repairs yourself, it will not be that expensive. I bought my car with 28k miles and it needed all the little things to get it right. Plugs, wires, cap, rotors, suspension and filters.
Just get a PPI ....the driving experience is worth the busted nuckles or the $$ for upkeep.
and I guess I can learn the easy repairs if i do get a 993
if its not too hard, i'd be happy to save some money and gain some more knowledge. too bad i dont have much mechanical engineering background..... but at least i'm willing to learn xD While I might not agree with the way Quadcammer delivered the message, its basically true and excellent advice.
These are really good cars so its imperative that you get a PPI by an experienced shop so the overall experience is a good one and you are not ambushed by unforseen repairs.
These are really good cars so its imperative that you get a PPI by an experienced shop so the overall experience is a good one and you are not ambushed by unforseen repairs.
agree ^_^ and when the time comes, i'll need you guys to recommend me a place in SF for it I really do not think that you will see the 993 worth $15k after 5 years. A well maintained car will be worth at least what you paid for it 5 years from know. Look at 964s and SCs - you think a 993 will be worth less? I also think that the merc will cost you the same in maintenance. Now if you did need a top end done, price is more like $6k - $8k. But as mentioned, this is really a call based upon oil consumption that could be asssessed from records of a meticulous (and forthright) PO. There are many high mileage 993s that have not needed top ends.
For $30k, you should be able to find a car (esp a tip) that has had most of the big-ticket maintenance items completed, so you will be left with things like tires and oil changes and maybe some other miscellaneous items. Also, cabs are out of favor and are well priced.
A PPI is a must. Also, don't be a bottom fisher. Look for a well maintaned car with good records. Paying $5k more for a good car is your best insurance.
For $30k, you should be able to find a car (esp a tip) that has had most of the big-ticket maintenance items completed, so you will be left with things like tires and oil changes and maybe some other miscellaneous items. Also, cabs are out of favor and are well priced.
A PPI is a must. Also, don't be a bottom fisher. Look for a well maintaned car with good records. Paying $5k more for a good car is your best insurance.
quadcammer answered it in the next post ^^;; I personally really really want a 993, but i gotta use financial figures to convince friends and family members that might also use the car sometimes.
Firstly, there is no way the merc is as expensive, especially given hat it will be a fairly low mileage 2007.
An A-service is an oil change with a few checks.
A b-service is an oil change, and more checks.
Both can be done at home with minimal skill, minimal tools, and minimal parts cost.
New air filter every 30k, new fuel filter every 50k, cabin filters every 20k, plugs every 100k.
All these parts are inexpensive and readily available. If you should be so unlucky as to have a bunch of electrical malfunctions, yes they can get expensive, but so can every car out there. The 2005+ MBs are on average, very solid cars.
Yes, there are many high mileage cars that haven't had a topend. There are also a lot that have had a top end. There is also a sizeable contingent that NEED top ends but the owners don't want to pay that kinda money, so they'll either ignore it, lie to themselves that it not a problem to add a quart every 600, or they will just "forget" to disclose it upon selling it (hence the ppi).
Finally, even with major things done, stuff breaks, and its not cheap. Its a 15 year old car, stuff happens, its not porsche only. That said, if he needs a new set of tires, his $1k budget is shot right off the bat, and thats not even using PS2s or other fancy rubber. And if he is driving it a bunch, you are looking at a new set of rear tires each year.
Some people like to involve their brain as well as their hear when making a fairly important decision.
I'm sure we'd all love to own 993s, but sometimes you have to consider the financial impact. A bad 993 will eat you out of house and home.
An A-service is an oil change with a few checks.
A b-service is an oil change, and more checks.
Both can be done at home with minimal skill, minimal tools, and minimal parts cost.
New air filter every 30k, new fuel filter every 50k, cabin filters every 20k, plugs every 100k.
All these parts are inexpensive and readily available. If you should be so unlucky as to have a bunch of electrical malfunctions, yes they can get expensive, but so can every car out there. The 2005+ MBs are on average, very solid cars.
Yes, there are many high mileage cars that haven't had a topend. There are also a lot that have had a top end. There is also a sizeable contingent that NEED top ends but the owners don't want to pay that kinda money, so they'll either ignore it, lie to themselves that it not a problem to add a quart every 600, or they will just "forget" to disclose it upon selling it (hence the ppi).
Finally, even with major things done, stuff breaks, and its not cheap. Its a 15 year old car, stuff happens, its not porsche only. That said, if he needs a new set of tires, his $1k budget is shot right off the bat, and thats not even using PS2s or other fancy rubber. And if he is driving it a bunch, you are looking at a new set of rear tires each year.
Some people like to involve their brain as well as their hear when making a fairly important decision.
I'm sure we'd all love to own 993s, but sometimes you have to consider the financial impact. A bad 993 will eat you out of house and home.
I don't think i'll be putting on that many miles considering how i'll only drive it like 3 times a week ( not far, LA is only so big ... ) , and then that ocassional drive up to SF. so tires isn't a big concern ( i hope...)
will reply WHEN i find my inbox xD still new to this forum , sorry xD
Halcyon -
I like your analysis and think it's pretty solid. I actually think that the proposed depreciation will not be as bad as you predict for the 993 unless the economy continues to decline. $25K buys a really nice driver 993 and if you keep it that way I suspect it would still be worth $20K after 5 years.
Here's another data point:
I bought my car 4 1/2 years ago with 90K miles for $28.5. It was very well cared for but not a garage queen. I drive it daily but it's not my only car. I have put 40K miles on it since I bought it. It has been very dependable but I have done all of the "expected" repairs such as alternator, steering rack, fuel pump, etc. It has also had 1 major service including plug wires and 3 minor services. I have spend about $4400 on maintenance and repairs which is just shy of $1K/yr. However, nearly all of the work was done by myself so there is no expense here for shop labor. It is all very straightforward and the DIY articles are great. If you can't do the work yourself, I think this figure could increase by as much as 60%.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with very acceptable oil consumption. I am currently planning for a top-end rebuild in the next year or so as I know it's inevitable but right now consumption is 1500-2500miles/qt depending on the driving cycle.
If I sold this car today, I would likely not let it go for less than $24k (it does have several popular upgrades that are not factored into the maintenance cost but do add value). Without mods, it's likely still a $20K car in this depressed economy.
One thing that is bugging me though is the question of a 993 or C300??? These are very different cars that you wouldn't normally cross shop. I think it would be best to determine what you really want out of your next car. If you really love the 993 and don't mind a lack of creature comforts, the 993 is very suitable as a daily driver but will be very raw compared to the isolated comfort and quiet of the Benz with it's litany of electronic goodies.
I like your analysis and think it's pretty solid. I actually think that the proposed depreciation will not be as bad as you predict for the 993 unless the economy continues to decline. $25K buys a really nice driver 993 and if you keep it that way I suspect it would still be worth $20K after 5 years.
Here's another data point:
I bought my car 4 1/2 years ago with 90K miles for $28.5. It was very well cared for but not a garage queen. I drive it daily but it's not my only car. I have put 40K miles on it since I bought it. It has been very dependable but I have done all of the "expected" repairs such as alternator, steering rack, fuel pump, etc. It has also had 1 major service including plug wires and 3 minor services. I have spend about $4400 on maintenance and repairs which is just shy of $1K/yr. However, nearly all of the work was done by myself so there is no expense here for shop labor. It is all very straightforward and the DIY articles are great. If you can't do the work yourself, I think this figure could increase by as much as 60%.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with very acceptable oil consumption. I am currently planning for a top-end rebuild in the next year or so as I know it's inevitable but right now consumption is 1500-2500miles/qt depending on the driving cycle.
If I sold this car today, I would likely not let it go for less than $24k (it does have several popular upgrades that are not factored into the maintenance cost but do add value). Without mods, it's likely still a $20K car in this depressed economy.
One thing that is bugging me though is the question of a 993 or C300??? These are very different cars that you wouldn't normally cross shop. I think it would be best to determine what you really want out of your next car. If you really love the 993 and don't mind a lack of creature comforts, the 993 is very suitable as a daily driver but will be very raw compared to the isolated comfort and quiet of the Benz with it's litany of electronic goodies.
i personally love the 993 and don't mind the lack of comfort, and the fun of 993 balance that out anyway, and bringing in the c300 ( which is what my friends and family members had in mind) would show them the advantage and disadvantage to both sides
Anyway, I appreciate all this overwhelming amount of information!!!! ONE night! You guys scared me when i clicked back on here to see what replies I got, and see that I have two pages to read through xD Really really helpful advice here. Thank you all
02-02-2011, 12:34 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Rock solid here on the C4S. 5K miles in the past 8 weeks being a ski bum, and it was parked for two of those weeks while we were out of town. (Can't believe I'm halfway to an oil change!) Next to zero repair costs in 6 1/2 years from when I bought it at 100K, until now with just turning 135K. It was one of the first cars to get a top end in 2001 @ 75K. Solid, reliable cars. But everyone here knows that.
02-02-2011, 03:31 AM
#19
Drifting
Hey, I resemble that remark! 
This man speaks the truth! But welcome to a great bit of fun, even if others label it madness.
Quad is right on $1k/yr a bit low on maintenance. I can't tell you how much, because I do much of the work myself now, and I DON'T add it up. It would be too painful. But when I leave work, get in the 993 and hit redline in 2nd gear on the way home, the symphony in the back seat is worth every penny.
He did say "Tiptronic"...
yes, be careful of TOO cheap. It generally points to deferred maintenance or a very poor condition car. That said, the Tip does help you in your hunt for a lower cost car, since not as many people want the Tip. Many who have it love it, and occasionally when I stop & roll my way to work in traffic, I understand why someone would want it. Not for me however.
This man speaks the truth! But welcome to a great bit of fun, even if others label it madness.Quad is right on $1k/yr a bit low on maintenance. I can't tell you how much, because I do much of the work myself now, and I DON'T add it up. It would be too painful. But when I leave work, get in the 993 and hit redline in 2nd gear on the way home, the symphony in the back seat is worth every penny.
He did say "Tiptronic"...
yes, be careful of TOO cheap. It generally points to deferred maintenance or a very poor condition car. That said, the Tip does help you in your hunt for a lower cost car, since not as many people want the Tip. Many who have it love it, and occasionally when I stop & roll my way to work in traffic, I understand why someone would want it. Not for me however.
02-02-2011, 04:01 AM
#20
02-02-2011, 04:34 AM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rock solid here on the C4S. 5K miles in the past 8 weeks being a ski bum, and it was parked for two of those weeks while we were out of town. (Can't believe I'm halfway to an oil change!) Next to zero repair costs in 6 1/2 years from when I bought it at 100K, until now with just turning 135K. It was one of the first cars to get a top end in 2001 @ 75K. Solid, reliable cars. But everyone here knows that.
Hey, I resemble that remark! This man speaks the truth! But welcome to a great bit of fun, even if others label it madness.
Quad is right on $1k/yr a bit low on maintenance. I can't tell you how much, because I do much of the work myself now, and I DON'T add it up. It would be too painful. But when I leave work, get in the 993 and hit redline in 2nd gear on the way home, the symphony in the back seat is worth every penny.
He did say "Tiptronic"...
yes, be careful of TOO cheap. It generally points to deferred maintenance or a very poor condition car. That said, the Tip does help you in your hunt for a lower cost car, since not as many people want the Tip. Many who have it love it, and occasionally when I stop & roll my way to work in traffic, I understand why someone would want it. Not for me however.
This man speaks the truth! But welcome to a great bit of fun, even if others label it madness.Quad is right on $1k/yr a bit low on maintenance. I can't tell you how much, because I do much of the work myself now, and I DON'T add it up. It would be too painful. But when I leave work, get in the 993 and hit redline in 2nd gear on the way home, the symphony in the back seat is worth every penny.
He did say "Tiptronic"...
yes, be careful of TOO cheap. It generally points to deferred maintenance or a very poor condition car. That said, the Tip does help you in your hunt for a lower cost car, since not as many people want the Tip. Many who have it love it, and occasionally when I stop & roll my way to work in traffic, I understand why someone would want it. Not for me however.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
no affiliation...
no affiliation...
i'm aware of this one, in fact, i quite like the color combo since my cayenne is grey and tan too xD only thing is, that chrome wheel ... chrome just isn't really my style ^^; it seems cool how he says that car went on a magazine cover though ( which means i can't change out the rims or else i'll ruin the image :| ) haha but as i've figure out by now, aesthetic is no big deal, mechanical history and PPI is whats important. * it is a 95' though, good for SAI issue and top valve stuff, but not as good electronics for tip , and variocam ( which i heard that 13hp doesnt make much of a difference)
02-02-2011, 09:03 AM
#22
Race Director
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
no affiliation...
no affiliation...
02-02-2011, 12:42 PM
#24
Race Car
Been off air for a couple of days.
1st: $1000 per year is way low for 993 maintenance. I have a comprehensive history on my car and it has had $31,091 since leaving the dealer. That's closer to $2005 per year.
As for the Merc, I was talking about out of warranty Mercs. Some misunderstood. I've had 7 Mercedes in the last 20 years. S class, E class, and the ML. All of them were very expensive to maintain.
When the warranty is up, you'll start seeing problems right away (had a MAF go out at 50,135!) and they will not be cheap. As far as DIY stuff, a Merc is nearly impossible, where the 911s are generally considered to be great cars to learn to wrench on...
As always, My.02.
1st: $1000 per year is way low for 993 maintenance. I have a comprehensive history on my car and it has had $31,091 since leaving the dealer. That's closer to $2005 per year.
As for the Merc, I was talking about out of warranty Mercs. Some misunderstood. I've had 7 Mercedes in the last 20 years. S class, E class, and the ML. All of them were very expensive to maintain.
When the warranty is up, you'll start seeing problems right away (had a MAF go out at 50,135!) and they will not be cheap. As far as DIY stuff, a Merc is nearly impossible, where the 911s are generally considered to be great cars to learn to wrench on...
As always, My.02.
02-02-2011, 01:05 PM
#25
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Bay, Los Angeles
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
OT: Oh, and if it's a Lister's car, I apologize for the "negative" comments. Funny when people have great cars for sale, they also receive honest feedback. But when it's "priced too low" and "it'll sell fast," no one complains...
02-02-2011, 01:15 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
