Paddy

Looking for some advice from you G racers here. Also, what are the fields like here in the Mid-Atlantic and do you guys run any NASA GTS-3 races?

Thanks

Mark in Baltimore

One word, Pat: coaching. My time with Chris Cervelli (very limited time, at that) took me from a back of the pack racer to someone who has a decent shot at winning or hitting the podium. I think everything else (Motons, Momo Mod .07 steering wheel, Hoosiers, etc.) is secondary. Well, maybe secondary after track time, but that goes without saying.

jscott82

Must have? PCA Sticker is the only other requirement

For Safety Don’t Forget:
3 layer Suit
Hans
Kill Switch

The nice thing about stock class, you are very limited in what you can do.... The flipside is you should do everything that is allowed. Read the rulebook, if it says you can, you should..... Then you need to decide, do you want to bend the rules and throw in a few other things? My feeling is the top guys do, I haven’t yet as I am still not competitive.

Off the top of my head, here is what I have done:
Tow Vehicle/Trailer
2-3 sets of wheels/tires (Hoosier R6)
Springs/Shocks (JRZ/Moton are most popular)
Swaybars
Monoballs
Brake Ducting
Weight Box
Solid Motor/trans Mounts
Reinforced engine carrier
Steel Syncs in trans
Light Weight Flywheel
Fresh LSD
Trans Cooler (long enduros)
Camera
Radio
Cool Suit
Second Oil Cooler
Tow Hooks
Remove AC
Remove interior (except dash)
Exhaust
Spares
+ 1 million little things
Coaching, Coaching, Coaching

As far as GTS3, by rules GTS allows so many more things than PCA stock (modified gears and aero, for example) a stock car should not stand a chance.... That being said, I know several that have and were competitive....

jscott82

+1 on that... I should have put that at the top of my list....
Also it doesnt hurt to have a pro help setup the car....

Paddy

Thanks Mark. I spoke w/ Jim Evans this past fall about doing a weekend with Chris at some point in 2011. PM me for more info.

I have most of the car goodies and I'm ready to make the plunge. I've been thinking about adding a proper fire suppression system, do you have one? Is it necessary to have a radio system installed? Also, do you use new Hoosiers for every race weekend?

Paddy

Thanks for the info Jeff! From your list it seems I only need a couple of items- kill switch, LSD, and cage.

Some questions for you though.

Where did you source your trans cooler. Also, where did you mount the heat exchanger, pictures of the install?

Mark, are you going to remove the rest of your interior now that it's legal and run ballast?

ninjabones

To answer your question, mid atlantic G-class fields are very small (and will likely be smaller next year withe Baron Jacob, Dan R and me moving to different classes). This past season, average race had only 4-5 G cars. I jumped to H-class mid season this past summer and have had a blast with the much larger fields (H class is probably only second to spec boxster in size of fields). However, even with the smaller fields, you'll always grid around cars with similar lap times (and they're are plenty of guys in small classes that have fun racing out-of-class cars).

GTS3 fields in NASA Mid Atlantic are pretty big (10-15 cars)... but a G-class 993 will be way way way off the pace of the front runners (I'd say 3 seconds off the pace at summit point and Thunderbolt). You'd be able to drop a lot of ballast to run in GTS3, but you'd still be at a huge handicap against guys like Bob Turgeon and Eric Wong who are turning sub 1:20s at Summit point and low 1:28s at Thunderbolt.

ninjabones

I wouldn't ever contemplate doing this again


However, the results are pretty sweet... no?


I had to run close to 200 lbs in ballast last season... I'm fearing how much I'm going to have to add now.

jscott82

I haven’t done the trans cooler yet, but there is a current thread in the racing forum you should read. For now I'm installing a temp guage to keep an eye on it....

Mark in Baltimore

I run new Hoosiers every session, Pat.












Seriously, a set of Hoosiers is good for two race weekends, and then they become practice/DE tires. I haven't found much lap time difference between stickers and a set with six heat sessions (one qualifying, three races, one warm up and one enduro).

I don't have a fire suppression system in the car. I do have a SPA system from a 996 cup that has been sitting in my basement. Just haven't had the time or motivation to install it. I think it's good to have one, of course, but not necessary.

I have an awesome Motorola SP90 radio system that I got on eBay, but it, too, is not necessary to race. I would often race with local regional people like Manny Alban, Tim Costa, Pete Tremper and Todd Bernard, so it was nice to be able to talk with them on the radio. At Watkins Glen, Manny once warned us about fuel that had been spilled at turn 8, so that prevented me from wrecking. Also, if one of your teammates decides to, say (hypothetically speaking), cut you off and try to run you off of the track, you can cuss him out, tell him to f*cking coexist and hear his super-nice wife, our green flag spotter, apologize to you. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Radios are great in enduros where you can coordinate your pit-in with your "crew chief" so that you don't pit at the same time as the hypothetical teammate who tried to run you off of the road. Also, most importantly, if you have a spotter, you can gain one or two positions by having the spotter let you know when the course goes green. You'll need to be fast enough to keep those gains, though.


I've always had to run ballast even when I had full insulation and carpeting. Currently, the driver's side of my car is stripped, but the passenger side is carpeted. My plan is to strip the other side this spring when the weather gets warmer. I can bomb the carpeting with methyl ethyl ketone and ventilate the interior without going dain bread even with an organic respirator.

forklift

Hey Pat,

Looks like you got some good answers here. I'm on board w/ Cervelli for sure as long as biz keeps up/improves.....but there is no shortage of drivers who want CC's coaching if I couldn't make it. I can easily think of 5 who have contacted me over the last year asking when/if I was going to have him out this year. Let's keep in touch via email on this and see if we can figure something out during the season. I'd still like to have him back at Summit, but any track would do. Also, probably an open track vs. a DE would be better (but more expensive).

For Hoos, my laptimes can tell a difference at about HC 5 or 6 (but the big dropoff at around 14 or 15) so I guess it just comes down to how much you want to spend.

For my RSA I think the only stuff left for me to do in G are the wheels (still cup2s) for performance and a trans cooler for longevity...maybe a splitter. I still run the stock heat exchangers w/ a cat and primary by pass, but personally don't think there is much to gain w/ a RSA/964 w/ aftermarket headers if the chip is stock.

From speaking to you and knowing your lap times you should be at or near the front right at the start.


I have only (finally!) done the Summit race after 6 years of DE but was interested if I could see any obvious differences in acceleration between cars (for obvious cheating) and I couldn't. For all of the talk of PCA cheating in the stock/prepared classes it wasn't obvious to me on the track... I know it is out there though. I have heard of a few cars w/ custom gearing and I saw a car or two with wheels that were wider than allowed, but on the track where it counts I didn't see any cars that were mechanically faster than my car in G or even H (most of the H cars were faster at the end of the straight at Summit which they should be). My opinion is you can be at the top of your class (consistent podium) with a 100% legal car.

Mark in Baltimore

+1. Any car that sees the podium on a regular basis can expect a high degree of scrutiny by PCA, meaning that, IMHO, very, very few of the front runners are cheating. Some cars have been very closely inspected (gearing, chips, engine, etc.) and either nothing was found or perhaps some minor, stupid transgression was revealed such as too much negative camber.

As Jim said, cheating exists, but it's often thought that the mid or back packers are doing it since they have very little chance of having their car torn down.

John H

Buy my car and you will need nothing but the coaching

jscott82

Yes gears or a chip is blatant cheating... I was referring to the more subtle things, optimized oil flow, upgraded diff, optimized ballast locations, things that can’t easily be seen or measured.... None of which are obvious on track (you can’t tell running down the straight) but it's 10ths... a tenth of a pound here, a tenth of a hp there it all starts to add up... That’s what a good crew chief/builder does is add up those 10ths....

At the club level, all those 10ths get wiped out with one good coaching session though, the competition in the lower ranks isn’t that close.... Which I why I haven’t done them…. But if I were to get to the top of my game and consistently within a couple of tenth of the leader I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to try…..

John H

What satisfaction is there to winning if you know you are cheating?