nile13

There's a car in member to member classifieds. A nice looking car, something similar to what I've been thinking about adding to my fleet lately. The price seems to be decent, miles are a bit high but not scary. The add is fairly short, nothing negative is mentioned.

OK, how do you determine the car value nowadays? You go to eBay, look for "Completed listings", see what similar cars sold for. Well, lo and behold, this very car is there. Not a single bid and the price is $1K lower than what is being asked for of Rennlist "brothers". The eBay auction ended a week before the Rennlist add appeared, so it's not like the seller doesn't know that there were no bytes at lower price.

But that's not the bad part, that's minor and negitiable. What is major is that the car's been totaled. Not once. Twice. Yep,you heard it right, twice. Two separate accidents, two separate salvaged titles. Not a single word in the add mentioning this minor detail. A "respray" is mentioned rather nonchalantly.

So, what would you do? Wold you go on by or write something in response to the add to warn others? I was about to email the seller before I found the eBay info and the whole thing really bothers me. This is not a couple of bucks of "who didn't sell what to whom" type of thing, this is thousands of dollars.

Discuss.

DC from Cape Cod

Price is not an issue IMO - I would only pay what I thought it was worth to me, not what it was listed at.

Salvage is a huge issue and should be disclosed upfront. Failure to do so = no deal in my book.

nile13

Price is just a red herring in my opinion. Not important. But the rest of it... I don't know why it bugs me so much.

cannon1000

Offer a price appropriate for a salvaged car. Do your due diligence as you always should. Unless he is a car dealer - anything goes.

As far as posting a response...sure...ask publicly that you want verification of the salvage title. I don't see what is wrong with it, and you are doing your friends here a favor as well. The car may have been salvaged...and repaired and is in fine condition or maybe not....again...do your due diligence (go see it, get it inspected, etc) and offer a fair price.

What is a fair price? - that is basically the going price for a similar car, similar condition, similar history. Tools like edmunds and kbb can be used as guidance. The best place is to find out what they are going for is at auction...that is where reality is. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. How do you find auction prices??? That requires a dealer with access to that info...maybe someone here can help or a friend.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

nile13

Oh, no I'm not only not touching this car, I'm not touching anything else this seller has to sell. I'm into this little used thing called "honesty".

The question is not about that. The question is - what's the appropriate thing to do, if any. Warn others, send seller a polite email asking him to disclose info in the add, or just ignore the whole thing. After all, we are trying to be a community.

boman993

I for one would love a heads up...being in the market and all.

goofballdeluxe

+1. I say out the dishonest member to all on the Board. What downside is there to being dishonest if there's no consequence?

Personally, I feel if all cheaters were exposed and their reputations tarnished, they'd be less likely in the future to act like a dishonest cheat.

Texas993

I'm not sure that I would do anything. But it certainly demonstrates the need to do due diligence on any car purchase. If you buy a car without a carfax, you are taking a big gamble. And the car fax is just the starting point of researching a car.

nile13

So, would you reply to the For Sale post with a note "This car appears to have been salvaged twice"?

BTW, if anyone is interested, it's the red BMW 540i in the Member to Member. And eBay link is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-...t_56935wt_1196

goofballdeluxe

If I knew for certain that the seller was not disclosing important information that could wind up defrauding a fellow Rennlister, I would not hesitate.

But I'd need to make sure 100% I was correct about the salvage info. This IS someone's reputation, and it only deserves to be tarnished if your info is absolutely correct and true.

CorrdoBrit

Poor car. That thing has taken a beating........
I'm on the side of total disclosure. Who's really going to insist on full bodyshop and mechanicals PPI for a car at that price point. I don't think its asking too much for the seller to show a little honesty and clearly state its status as a salvage/rebuilt vehicle.

firesm

I don't see what the dilemma is here. If it wasn't listed for sale on rennlist and someone on here posted that they saw it advertised elsewhere, and they wanted to know if anyone here knew anything about it, and you had this information, you would be all over it! Right? Well - it's being advertised to everyone here now - and someome here may be considering it right now - without the information that you have. So I think you should absolutely call this person out! No dilemma.My $0.02.

Davies

The ebay ad is straightforward and upfront. While the R-List ad is not exactly. Still - Anyone paying $8500 - $7500 for an '01 M5 should know they are probably getting something with a dodgy title, no? It is well below book value.

nile13

Matt, this is not an M5. This is a garden variety 540i.

guardsredcab

I think your approach of responding to the ad by saying "it appears to have been salvaged twice" is appropriate. Carfax is not infallible. Admittedly, the chances of it not showing an accident that happened are probably greater than reporting an accident that didn't happen, but I personally know of at least one instance of Carfax saying a car had a salvage title that had never been in an accident. Just think about where the data comes from and the potential key punch errors entering a VIN.