Notices
993 Forum 1995-1998

Pinging/Low Power: Tried much. Bright Ideas?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-04-2010, 11:58 PM
  #1  
turbojames
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
turbojames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dc
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angry Pinging/Low Power: Tried much. Bright Ideas?

Recently bought a 1995 Carrera with 100k. Great shape, great leakdown. But it pings and is definitely down on power. It has one of Steve Weiner's GIAC chips, but even when I swap for a bone stock DME, the problems remain.

-Pulled a spark plug, definitely lean
-Plug wires are in great shape (recently done)
-Distributor belt not broken
-No error codes
-New air filter

Yesterday, I took my first reasonably long drive (~25 mins) in the 45 degree weather. Pinging was much worse (credit the denser air here most likely) - power too. Toward the end of the drive, I could smell fuel (unburned) in the cabin. I should note that the engine runs incredibly smoothly, which prompts me to believe it's not a one-off thing, like one injector or one plug, etc.

I will appreciate any and all suggestions/advice on where to proceed from here. Fuel? MAF? Timing? All of the above?

Thanks in advance.
Old 11-05-2010, 12:07 AM
  #2  
CalvinC4S
Drifting
 
CalvinC4S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Distributor belt missing teeth?
Old 11-05-2010, 12:10 AM
  #3  
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
RL Technical Advisor
 
Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 11,871
Likes: 0
Received 64 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

Call me on Saturday AM to discuss.
Old 11-05-2010, 10:34 AM
  #4  
Dwane
Race Car
 
Dwane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,741
Received 18 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

When was the last time the belt was changed? Just because it is intact doesn't mean it is fine.
Old 11-05-2010, 10:54 AM
  #5  
johnsjmc
Racer
 
johnsjmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London Ont. can.
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Sounds like belt issues to me too. A tooth missing will allow one half to be out of time from spec. Does the engine run the same on either distributor equally well? Unplug one coil wire at a time and test by running it. You don,t need to drive it to tell because it should idle smoothly on either half.. You might also have mixed up the firing order on one set of wires. The engine will run but one side might be igniting one or two cylinders way early.
Old 11-05-2010, 12:21 PM
  #6  
Deadeye
Rennlist Member
 
Deadeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: S.E. Mass
Posts: 890
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Vacuum leak?
Old 11-05-2010, 12:23 PM
  #7  
turbojames
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
turbojames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dc
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Interesting. Will try the above next week. Thanks greatly for all replies.

Steve: talk to you Sat, and thanks again for all of your help.
Old 11-05-2010, 12:24 PM
  #8  
turbojames
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
turbojames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dc
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

wouldn't vacuum leak make the idle screwy too?
Old 11-05-2010, 12:59 PM
  #9  
Davies
Burning Brakes
 
Davies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wilton, CT
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm surprised you aren't getting a CEL/code. Definitely sounds like an ignition issue, though. Dual-distributor-belt-missing-teeth theory sounds plausible. @Johnsjmc suggestion of mixed up plug wires is good too.
You say the plug wires were changed recently. How recently, and who did it?
Old 11-05-2010, 01:04 PM
  #10  
geolab
Rennlist Member
 
geolab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 3,031
Received 173 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

if all mechanicals are good
1- carbon deposits or
2- cam - chain expansion- timing adjustment slightly off or
3- Oil overfill (some)
Some 993 engines ping like hell when oil tank is over-filled
oil vapor thrown in inlet. miniscule particles of oil in cylinder provoke knock
oil level at midrange on manual gauge is good alternative
Old 11-05-2010, 01:26 PM
  #11  
matt777
Drifting
 
matt777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,817
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Accidentally filled with regular/low octane / service station got its premium tank filled with regular. The ECU can only retard the timing so far.
Old 11-05-2010, 03:43 PM
  #12  
turbojames
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
turbojames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dc
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by matt777
Accidentally filled with regular/low octane / service station got its premium tank filled with regular. The ECU can only retard the timing so far.
I should have mentioned that this is my third tank of gas (93). Also I don't know how I forgot to mention it, but I did run one tank with half 93 and half 100, and the car stopped pinging (still could have been faster, though).

Originally Posted by geolab
if all mechanicals are good
1- carbon deposits or
2- cam - chain expansion- timing adjustment slightly off or
3- Oil overfill (some)
Some 993 engines ping like hell when oil tank is over-filled
oil vapor thrown in inlet. miniscule particles of oil in cylinder provoke knock
oil level at midrange on manual gauge is good alternative
Well, I know it's not 3, thanks to my lower VC gaskets . Let's hope it's not 1 or 2.

Originally Posted by Matt Davies
I'm surprised you aren't getting a CEL/code. Definitely sounds like an ignition issue, though. Dual-distributor-belt-missing-teeth theory sounds plausible. @Johnsjmc suggestion of mixed up plug wires is good too.
You say the plug wires were changed recently. How recently, and who did it?
Plug wires were changed about 16,000 miles ago - no mention of where. (Though that was 2003!) I just had them inspected locally (Taylor Chapman), and they are supposedly fine. If they are indeed in mixed up order, wouldn't I be able to tell? The car is glass smooth, though the exhaust sounds weird to me (Fister III, seems to "putter" at idle)...
Old 11-05-2010, 04:43 PM
  #13  
deekay911
Pro
 
deekay911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 745
Received 8 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I had two plug leads mixed up after a service on my 964 and it pinked like crazy. I didn't go back to that shop again
Old 11-05-2010, 05:07 PM
  #14  
FisterD
Rennlist Member
 
FisterD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 4,257
Received 43 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by deekay911
I had two plug leads mixed up after a service on my 964 and it pinked like crazy.
Hmmm.....interesting
Attached Images  
Old 11-05-2010, 05:19 PM
  #15  
deekay911
Pro
 
deekay911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 745
Received 8 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

lol - we call premature ignition pinking in the UK....


Quick Reply: Pinging/Low Power: Tried much. Bright Ideas?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:32 PM.