SeattleAllroad

I was just going through email and read that the VW Porsche merger may be off...http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/in...part/19696437/

BSL

Highly unlikely. Will probably be a little bit off on the original timing, but will still happen in all likelihood.

ilko

Porsche might survive as a standalone company in the current economic environment. But not with the current and future CAFE standards. That's why they wanted to buy VW in the first place. So one way or another those two companies are tied at the hip now.

Slow Guy

Ha! I finally get to post it on someone else...

Enzo!

Edit: Oh Snap! I posted it in the Off Topic forum..

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...ead::banghead:

alps

VW may not merge with the Porsche holding company but they still still intend to take over the Porsche AG operating company.

Either way, VW is firmly in charge of future product planning and the Porsche brand. IMO no bad thing as they have done a great job with Audi and Skoda and with Piech still in charge at VW, you can be sure they will respect the heritage and hopefully give us some much more interesting products.

goofballdeluxe

I doubt VW could dilute the brand and heritage much more than has already been done over the last decade. Sure, it ensured the survivability of Porsche, but at the cost of all it's distinctiveness and originality. Porsche is now just another VW subsidiary, and at this stage of the game, Porsche cars and SUVs are really no different than BMW, Mercedes or any other mass-produced high end car.

SeattleAllroad

Hey 993BillW, point taken

ilko, the futue CAFE regs leave me a bit torn. I fully appreciate the need for more fuel efficient cars that are capable of higher MPG peformance. However, I do feel that there should be a production threshold under which the manufacturer is granted a waiver of some sort. Of course, the granting of waivers would then become a politically charged subject and open for argument and debate which wouldn't accomplish anything.

JM993

I completely disagree with this.

Porsche has evolved with the times while retaining the important stuff. Unlike Ferrari, you can still buy a Porsche with a genuine manual gearbox. Unlike BMW (and Ferrari and Lamborghini) you can still buy a Porsche that weighs right around 3000 pounds (same as our beloved 993s). If 997GT3s and 600+hp sub 3100 pound 997GT2 RSs are considered dilution of the brand, I say bring it on!

Reddy Kilowatt

+1

goofballdeluxe

I see your points.

I guess what I'm saying is, sure, Porsche makes some great cars like the lighter weight, not lightweight, 600+ hp GT2 (for $250,000). So does GM with the 600 hp ZR1 Corvette. GM still makes manuals too. And both GM and Porsche make SUVs.

I'm not saying Porsche doesn't make some really fast cars that will last up to the warranty period expires, most likely. So does Audi. And Mercedes, too. BMW as well, who plans on coming out with a 3100 pound 1-series M car soon. You see, all car makers are the same, mostly, if you understand my meaning.

I don't know that $250K cars that only land in the hands of the select few are a fair assessment of the brand. For every GT2 Porsche sells, they probably sell hundreds of Cayennes and Panameras. Just like GM with the ZR1 and it's other market leaders.

What I'm saying is, Porsche at this point, while a maker of fine cars, is just another maker of fine cars. There's nothing really different about them now. The only thing I think that sets them apart is they may be the only car company that sells a $250K car like the GT2 and also an SUV like the Cayenne. Well, maybe not, if you count the Audi V10 R8 and the Q7. Oh wait, I forgot Mercedes with the McLaren and the ML-series of SUVs....

2Many Cars

At least for now. Ferrari also offered both for a while.

I fully understand the economic need to broaden the product line but others have managed to survive without it - I have yet to see an Aston Martin or Lotus SUV. Sorry but IMHO Porsche sold a bit of its soul when they made the Pepper.

Marshy

+1

porschemikeandnancy

It is a well understood fact that if you are in a mass market, factory cost pushes everything else into the weeds. The company with the lowest build cost will win over the long term (there are exceptions, such as GM getting fat and lazy and losing their competitive edge). Its called the learning curve.

If you are in a niche market, which Porsche certainly is, you are selling high value added (or content). Even competing in this type of niche, as a market matures (sports cars), lots of people can start to make inroads. Porsche, IMHO, has done a good job of leveraging their core technologies - into a diverse yet still "niche" product line. If you want a pedestrian SUV, a dozen companies can serve your needs. But if you want a high end performance oriented one (BMW X5, X3, Cayenne, etc), Porsche and others have a product.

Even in a niche market, manufacturing cost still matters. Over time, competitors can "steal" market share by "learning" how to provide a vehicle "good enough" to cost Porsche sales. Acura could, if they wanted to (or Infinity) package up an SUV that will sell to buyers also looking at Porsche. In fact, I would argue they already have.

JM993

I used the GT2 RS as an extreme of example of Porsche's commitment to the evolution of what many of us love in the earlier cars. However, I would submit that the "cooking" 997 and 987 cars are pretty awesome in their own right. Not sure if you've driven either of these cars, but IMHO they are seriously desirable and hardly like any other car on the market (especially the 997). I would agree that the non-GT NA 996s were not the company's best work, but they are now back to building great cars with the 997 and 987.

Back in 2003, I supported Porsche's decision to build Cayennes because (before Wendelin got greedy and tried to take over the world) it enabled the company to remain independent and continue to make their marvelous sports cars. To me, that's not selling your soul, it's making a smart business decision to ensure the company can carry on during economic downturns when folks aren't buying sports cars. I just hope VW doesn't screw things up going forward.

speedbump2

It would most likely lead to another sort of "Gas Guzzler" tax handed down to the consumer, but I'd pay that tax if it meant I could still get the types of cars I desire.

--Chuck--