Spidey 993

touche GTgears. I guess you do know what infer means when you believe something is directed at you.

So you're saying you understand now why I could infer you calling me a "dick".

I am not hypocritical, so if you took it that way, I'm sorry.

See how that works?

matt777

Buyer paying for the PPI is the norm in my experience when I've bought/sold daily drivers. Its never been questioned and I've never been asked to pay for it as a seller. The buyer usually has their trusted mechanical shop do the work.

I certainly did my own evaluation on the car before even thinking about making an offer or getting a PPI. That said, I still planned to spend a few thousand after buying my 993.

Wilder

I'd love to hear the answer to this one to, especially since he stated he has owned several cars before.

tjeff:
You seem to think people here can't relate to you because they already own a car. Well, they purchased theirs at some point and most here have done PPIs when they bought theirs. No one enjoys the process of paying for a PPI on a car they passed on, especially if they passed on the basis of a poor diagnosis. But rather than seeing it as money wasted, it would serve you well to see it as money invested in your future car. Like many have stated here already, I would be hard pressed to buying a car with a PPI prearranged by the seller. Why the conflict of interest in favor of the seller in such arrangement is not self evident to you is beyond my reason.

All of this said, I suggest you consider the following solution: Before you PPI the next car, ask the seller numerous questions about the maintenance history and mechanical condition of the car. Then, with an understanding that the owner has a 12+ year car and that he is quite likely not a mechanic and therefore may not know every single issue of the car, suggest that you PPI the car at the mechanic of your choice and that you will buy the car and pay for the PPI provided there are no big surprises. However, the owner pays for the PPI if there is some major mechanical deficiency (like poor leakdown numbers etc.) and you reserve the right to walk from the car. Everything is negotiable and I can't see how any reasonable seller with a decent car would take an issue with this. THAT SAID, note that there are many mechanics who will give a very stern bill of health to an otherwise good car to cover their own liability. Many a seller will tell you how this is the norm more than the exception.

In the end, no good deal can be had without good faith and trust on both sides. PPIs aside, I never make a deal on anything unless its verified by my gut.

Best of luck with your search.

PS - This forum has membership from around the world, not just America.

1pcarnut

Spidey 993

Come on now Avid Fun, I don't know were to start.

It's like listening to your parents say before you get in a fight with another boy "Son, walk over there
and reason with Johnny and explain your side of the story". Has is been that long since you bought a car?

It's on like donkey kong. Sellers are pushing how meticulous there car is, how you should buy it now before it is gone tomorrow, its meticulous service history, peach of an interior/exterior. Not a single ding,
nor a scratch, never been rained in or smoked in. Its a full court press of buy my car, and I don't have the time to calm your nerves with a PPI, or I don't want you to take it to this or that shop because they don't respect me or...It goes on and on...

So Johnny, wait, can I have a word please.."Can I spend $350 to back up your claims". Wait, your a member of rennlist.com or pca boards, and I don't need a PPI, I should just call your friend in Canada to verify your car is tight? What?

That's the game my friend. Not your typical "leave it to beaver" family show.

Spidey 993

Me too Roger, this is the discussion I wanted last night, it got off track so bringing it back around.

IXLR8

I wonder if they or their ad stated "needs nothing"?

That is why I suggested going halves on the PPI cost with the seller. If the seller tells you its a great car with you being seriously interested in it, they might be more honest about the condition of their vehicle when they have to fork out half of the PPI cost.

On the side, do you have a lot of hands on experience with cars in general? In other words can you can do more than general maintenance....clutch job, etc?

Spidey 993

Yep, two of the cars are still out there on the web. In two of the cases I believe the owners truly didn't know their cars had so many problems because they wash/wax it, get an oil change and if it doesn't smoke or smell, everything is a OK.

I wish I was handy with cars. I can do some things but not enough.

dcdude

These dealers are trying to play lawyers. Privacy Policy doesn't apply to cars. The PPI is a service provided by the dealer to the buyer. The service includes the results. Duh.

Ah, the heart of the matter! I believe that we now have a better appreciation for your pain. Were these "too good to be true" deals? As another poster said, between Rennfax and more thorough phone vetting on your part, very few candidates even make it to the PPI process. I'm attaching a 993 Questionnaire that I developed (thanks to this board) when I was shopping as well as what I believe are Tony Callas' own inspection tips. See...we can be helpful!

That's probably the biggest problem with a seller's PPI. Even the most honest and diligent mechanic has a built-in conflict. Regardless of profession, who among us can do a really great job of checking his own work?

Wilder

Thanks for the education. You figure after having purchased seven aircooled 911s and numerous used BWMs and MBs in the past few years, and having had very few issues if at all with any of my purchases, I would know a thing or two. Next time I'll try a heavy dose of cynicism and see how far that gets me since it's clearly working wonders for you.

Two predictions:
a) you won't be around here for much longer
b) your next car is from Victory

Best of luck.

Spidey 993

DC, yep you found the heart of the matter. And to be honest and fair, they were borderline too good to be true cars maybe..C2, 22k miles for 33k (is that to good to be true? is an example I don't know).

You guys have already been helpful and thank you. My new thread will read:

1. I will not X out a car if it has not had a PPI
2. I will request a split of a PPI between seller and buyer
3. I will walk away if he doesn't agree to a split, because I have that right

I will read those attached docs, very helpful as well, and thanks.

Spidey 993

That's awesome Avid Fan. Nice dig. Love it.

I probably won't be here for long, if I don't find a car before it snows I will hibernate and see you next
spring buddy.

Poor Victory. I have heard the same things you have. The difference is I don't bandwagon or join the mob like you. I prefer to make my own mind up with caution.

Spidey 993

Alright folks, I'm going to work. I have enjoyed the conversation and I truly thank the ones who have shown me a different light. For the others, well, goodbye.

And one more thing not controversial and strictly factual.

Canyon - I don't care what your lawyer says. I got one too and I would bet a nickel they say the exact opposite of each other.

Reddy Kilowatt

Good luck tjeff. You can do anything you like. Doesn't mean all sellers will agree to your terms, nor that all Rennlist members agree to your approach, but anything you can negotiate is fair game. It seems like you need to screen your candidates a bit better first, and that's on you, not the seller.

IXLR8

In that case, they didn't try to mislead anyone.

Being neutral on this, I think sellers should get a PPI done by a reputable shop so as to provide long distance buyers with the facts. After all, a PPI does not expire in a month. I think a seller would disclose needed repairs to subsequent prospective buyers after knowing what the first PPI buyer paid to find out.

If I were you, I'd ask fellow members in the area to check out cars for you. I would be willing to do so...its fun.


Hang around other P-car owners plus make use of the on-line p-car workshop. Working on them (and motorcycles) is fun, you get to save gobs of $$$ and you know the job is done right.